Digital BW, The Print

Thanks for the reply. I should have indictated that I have a 1270 
that I will convert to the process....

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Chip,
> 
> Depending on which printer you're using, either the FS-N or the VM 
inksets
> are probably good choices.  If you have an 1160 or 3000, you can 
use the
> FS-N with the Epson driver.  At $150 the Piezo driver is not a bad 
deal.  If
> you want to try a lot of different papers, the profiles help you do 
this.
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 
> ___________________
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: photo_bear_nova [mailto:jlenkiewicz@c...]
>   Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 4:39 PM
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...
>   Subject: Re: [Digital BW] PS Quadtones vs. a dedicated system
(Attn: P.
> Roark)
> 
> 
>   From what I see in your fade tests is that for someone making the
>   move to the digital darkroom the MIS FS-N seems to have the better
>   stability. I am wanting a set of inks that will provide 
for "salable"
>   prints. I know nothing will replace a wet darkroom print at this
>   point in terms of image stability. But I would like something 
close.
>   In the wet darkroom I am used to using Polycontrast Fine Art and
>   Polycontrast RC.
> 
>   Though since I am testing things out at this point I am hesitant 
in
>   making the $150 investment in the PZ drivers (I may decide that 
the
>   wet darkroom is the best way go after the tests). Based on your
>   experience with the info provided will the MIS-VM do what I am
>   looking for? Your curves for this ink seem interesting (as well as
>   your images on the website). The best of all worlds.
> 
>   Thanks for helping the beginner...
> 
>   Chip
> 
> 
> 
>   --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark"
>   <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
>   > Ken,
>   >
>   > I use the third-party pigments from MIS or MediaStreet.  Bought 
in
>   bulk,
>   > these are very cheap and, for my uses, very good.  I tried to do
>   B&W with
>   > the Gen3 pigs (relatively weak yellow in Gen3 has been upgraded 
in
>   Gen4),
>   > and found the tone shifts unacceptable.
>   >
>   > I now have a fade test going with Epson 2200 and PiezoTone-
selenium
>   test
>   > strips in the fader.  The third spot in the fader is a test 
strip
>   printed
>   > with MIS archival pigments, but with the new, tougher yellow 
(same
>   as the
>   > Gen4 yellow, I believe) and the MIS FS/VM black (the best I've
>   found).  So,
>   > the best of the 3rd party pigments are up against the new
>   UltraChrome inks
>   > (best combination of color and stability yet) and PiezoTone-
>   selenium quad
>   > (best quad midtone).
>   >
>   > One thing I want to see is if these color inksets still have
>   unacceptable
>   > color shifts due to differential fade.
>   >
>   > It is way to early to draw any conclusions -- only 100 hours 
now.
>   At this
>   > point, both the UltraChrome and PiezoTone 50% patches show a 
0.01
>   tone
>   > shift, but that could be less, since that is the smallest amount
>   the X-Rite
>   > densitometer can read.  The MIS Arc pigs show a 0.03 drop in
>   magenta.  While
>   > it's too early to make any conclusions, this is a bad sign.  It 
may
>   be
>   > shifting green.
>   >
>   > So, stay tuned.  The fade test will reach 300 hours at the end 
of
>   next week.
>   > That is typically where the old warm-shifting quads started to
>   stabilize
>   > into a predictable, linear fade pattern.  So, it may be a place
>   where we'll
>   > have a much better basis for some judgments about tone 
stability.
>   >
>   > Paul
>   > http://www.PaulRoark.com
>   >
>   > ____________________________________________
>   >   -----Original Message-----
>   >   From: heliar333 [mailto:heliar@a...]
>   >   Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 8:18 AM
>   >   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...
>   >   Subject: Re: [Digital BW] PS Quadtones vs. a dedicated system
>   >
>   >
>   >   Paul -
>   >
>   >   If I follow, there are 3 considerations: tonal integrity,
>   longevity,
>   >   and price. No doubt, dye inks are a poor solution with 
respect to
>   >   longevity and price. If, however, we were to use a color 
inkset
>   with
>   >   excellent longevity and value, then the question boils down to
>   tonal
>   >   integrity.
>   >
>   >   Perhaps I can re-state the question: Given pigmented inkset of
>   >   comparable economy and longevity, what is the compelling 
reason to
>   >   favor quadtone printing done with 4 or more inks, versus
>   >   the "virtual" or "simulated" quadtone available through
>   Photoshop ?
>   >
>   >   Thanks !
>   >
>   >   - Ken Lee
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >   > A perfectly-profiled 1280 with Epson dye ink can make B&W 
prints
>   >   that look
>   >   > very good -- in some light and for a little while.  However,
>   even
>   >   if you get
>   >   > the cross-overs/color tints out of the system when the 
print is
>   >   fresh, with
>   >   > differential fade of the dyes there will be color shifts.  
Also,
>   >   the photo
>   >   > will suffer from "metamerism" -- tone shifts as the display
>   life is
>   >   changed.
>   >   >
>   >   > Probably most of us have gone through the drill of trying 
to use
>   >   color inks
>   >   > for B&W.  The 2200 might make the grade, but until I have 
seen
>   the
>   >   results
>   >   > of long-term fade tests (which I, among others, are doing) 
I'm
>   >   going to
>   >   > remain a bit skeptical that Epson has entirely solved the
>   problem.
>   >   >
>   >   > Actually, a big factor you might want to consider is cost.  
At
>   >   least with
>   >   > the MIS ink, the cost is very low compared to Epson inks --
>   >   especially if
>   >   > you buy bulk ink and either load carts yourself or use a
>   continuous
>   >   inking
>   >   > system.
>   >   >
>   >   > So, a spare printer with quads might make experimenting with
>   >   digital photos
>   >   > both more satisfying and less expensive.
>   >   >
>   >   > Paul
>   >   > http://www.PaulRoark.com
>   >
>   >
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