This is exactly the problem I had when I started this thread if you
ga back to the beginning of it
Vinny
http://www.wulfsden.com
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "jim hayes" <jimhayes@j...>
wrote:
> There are four (or six) grey/k/toner inks in the printer, not
color.
> For example, yellow is really light grey. Paul designed the curves
so
> that a greyscale file converted using the correct spaces from
> greyscale to RGB will use the balanced amount of light grey thru k
ink
> on the print to reproduce what is on the monitor.
>
> IOW, BW prints are obtained with MIS VM inks by fooling the printer
> into thinking it is printing an RGB image. But Paul's curve
carefully
> blends the light/dark/ toner inks to create a BW image.
>
> So if you had a greyscale picture that had a yellow cast that you
> scanned in as RGB and just directly applied Paul's curve to it, a
lot
> of light grey ("yellow") ink would show up in it.
>
> If you get the scanned RGB image converted to greyscale and it then
> looks okay, assuming your monitor working space is okay, then you
are
> all set. But you still must carefully convert from the specific
called
> out greyscale space of "gamma 2.2" to the correct exact RGB space
> called out for your printer (either sRGB or Adobe98, as per MIS
> instructions). Or Paul's curves won't apply the "colors" properly
so
> that the printer can be fooled into printing properly.
> Jim H.
>
>
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "voranado" <skobrin@h...>
> wrote:
> > If I may ask, why is it important to work in grayscale? I
usually
> > scan B&W as RGB as it seems to take better advantage of my Nikon
ls
> > 2000 and then work in desaturated rgb unitil I am ready to print.
I
> > have always assumed that even desaturated rgb provides more data
> > points than grayscale.. I could certainly go right to grayscale
> after
> > desaturating. This is a real question, not a comment. (I use
Adobe
> > rgb.)
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark"
> > <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > > Steve,
> > >
> > > Work in grayscale, not RGB. Then you convert to RGB *only* for
> > printing. I
> > > never save the RGB file. As soon as the printer is going, I
> delete
> > it. If
> > > you work in g/s, you can convert to any RGB space you'd like.
If
> > you are
> > > sending files to a lab, send them in g/s and let the lab
convert
> to
> > their
> > > space.
> > >
> > > Paul
> > > ________________________
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: scrber [mailto:stephen.bate@m...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 8:11 AM
> > > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...
> > > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: -MIS VM problem - AdobeRGB vs sRGB ?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks Paul. Do you know if there is a way that I can use
> > AdobeRGB
> > > as a working space, but then 'convert' files to sRGB when I
need
> > to
> > > send them out to the lab?
> > >
> > > Is AdobeRGB only necessary for your curves when the final
> > conversion
> > > to RGB for print is necessary (ie could I work in sRGB all
the
> > time,
> > > then prior to applying the curves on the print file, convert
to
> > Adobe
> > > RGB)?
> > >
> > > Or I am making all this orribly complicated???
> > >
> > >
> > > PS. Thanks for the revisted 1290 W1 curve - I will let you
know
> > how
> > > I get on and will send you a scan. I'd be surprised if the
> > originals
> > > were corrupted - I got them on 4 seperate occaisons and they
are
> > all
> > > the same.
> > >
> > > steve.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark"
> > > <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > > > Steve,
> > > >
> > > > As it relates to the MIS curves, the sRGB space appears to
> > simply
> > > compress
> > > > the dark tones slightly compared to the Adobe RGB.
> > > >
> > > > Paul
> > > > _____________________________
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: scrber [mailto:stephen.bate@m...]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 12:35 AM
> > > > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...
> > > > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: -MIS VM problem - adobeRGB vs
sRGB
> ?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > A generic colour space question.
> > > >
> > > > I print colour to a labs lighjet via digital files
(colour
> > space /
> > > > profile must be sRBG).
> > > >
> > > > I print B&W to an Epson 1290 with MIS VM and CIS. Pauls
> > Curves
> > > are
> > > > supposed to be used with an AdobeRBG colour space.
> > > >
> > > > I am not too hot on the whole colour management schebang
> yet.
> > > But as
> > > > a lot of my files are colour (convertded to B&W), I
wanted
> to
> > use
> > > the
> > > > same profile for all.
> > > >
> > > > So...Any idea what happens with the PR curves when I use
> > sRBG, or
> > > > vice versa, if I send my digital files to the lab with an
> > Adobe
> > > RGB
> > > > profile?
> > > >
> > > > Any way I can simplify my workflow - as the moment it is a
> > > hotchpotch
> > > > of profile mismatches and conversions.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > >
> > > > Steve.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "jim hayes"
> > > <jimhayes@j...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > For the 2nd conversion from greyscale to RGB to prepare
> for
> > > > printing:
> > > > > It may be implied, but also make sure that you are not
in
> > your
> > > > editing
> > > > > greyscale space (the greyscale space you use to get
your
> > > monitor
> > > > to
> > > > > match print, 20%dot gain, more likely a custom dot gain
> > curve,
> > > > etc),
> > > > > and make sure that you are in the appropiate RGB space
> > Paul's
> > > calls
> > > > > out for your printer/OS combo. In most cases this is
> > conversion
> > > > from
> > > > > the grayscale space of "gamma 2.2" to either "sRGB"
> > > or "Adobe98".
> > > > >
> > > > > But I question if the first conversion from RGB to
> greyscale
> > > would
> > > > not
> > > > > comb out your image data and cause posterization even
> > before you
> > > > had a
> > > > > chance to work on it. Have to be checked anyway. Might
be
> > okay
> > > if
> > > > you
> > > > > were in 16 bit mode.
> > > > > Jim H.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Vincent
> Orlando"
> > > > > <orlandovl@h...> wrote:
> > > > > > Bob, what I found after many hours is if the scan
picks
> > up any
> > > > sort
> > > > > > of color, which it normally does, before printing
change
> > to
> > > > > grayscale
> > > > > > and back to rgb and you should be allright
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Vinny
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...,
workmantx@a...
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > Vinny,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks for the information. I'm going to be
shooting
> > and
> > > > working
> > > > > > with some
> > > > > > > chromogenic film shortly (Ilford XP2 super). I'll
> scan
> > as
> > > RGB
> > > > and
> > > > > > wasn't
> > > > > > > sure exactly how my workflow should progress in PS
> > before
> > > > applying
> > > > > > Paul's
> > > > > > > curves.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bob
> > > >
> > > >
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[Digital BW] Re: -MIS VM problem - AdobeRGB vs sRGB ?
2002-09-27 by Vincent Orlando