Digital BW, The Print

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Cone" <piezobw@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 6:42 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: PiezoTone Black Fade Test


> on 10/15/02 5:28 AM, DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com at
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> > Jon,
> >
> > I just want to add that my own window fade test confirmed the fade
> > resistance of the Selenium PiezoTone gray inks with values from 0 to 85
dot%
> > showing only 0 % to 2% fade which is at the limit of the accuracy of my
> > Spectrocam spectrophotometer. There are a couple of odd readings in the
data
> > which indicate that my instrument is not really up to measuring changes
this
> > small. For all practical purposes there was no fade in the grays in my
test.
> >
> > Likewise my test showed the amount of warming in the grays was extreme
low
> > with the change in C-Y averaging 0.01 unit.
> >
> > They are continuing to give me the best prints yet.
> >
> > Martin Wesley
>
> Martin,
>
> Honest opinion time. Okay???

Jon,

Well of course the honest opinon is that we want it all and yesterday
please!<G>

In the meantime...
>
> A - If we deliver you a black with the same performance as the PiezoTone
> grays but with a OD that starts slightly less than current competing black
> inks, but does not fade and therefore ends higher than them. Would you use
> that black exclusively even though at the onset it was paler than current
> blacks?
>
> B - If you knew that even another black was available which was slightly
> darker at the onset and yet faded to the lower OD of A, but not as
> dramatically as PIezoTone black because the starting OD was less, would
you
> rather use that because after all it is what everyone has been used to?
>
> C - If you choose B, to what degree are you willing to sacrifice non-fade
in
> order to have better aesthetics at the onset?

I would need to work with the inks and see what they look like. The reason I
say this is that I did a series of prints of the same image all with the
Selenium gray in but using three different blacks, PT, FSN and Gen4. I found
that the overall difference of the prints was much, much less than the
density readings would suggest. I took the three prints to a local meeting
and laid them out on the table side by side. People could not consistently
identify the one with the higher Dmax ink. If this were the case with ink
"A" then there would be no reason not to use it.

Then the second question is how fast does ink "B" fade and does any fade
occur if exposure to light is kept to a normal to subdued level? Does it
color shift as it fades and if it does shift, is the hue compatible with the
rest of the inks in the set. Does the entire set fade at the same rate or
are the shadows fading faster than the midtones? Is it compatible with all
workflows or only with one? Ideally I would like to see a print that had
"faded out" to see what it looked like compared to a fresh print.

This is a very messy answer for you who has to make decisions as to what to
market and what kind of inventories to hold, etc. in order to be profitable.
For the end users I think the best situation is to have both inks available
so that they can make their own choice or do things like mix them 50/50 for
a compromise solution. Or have them in separate ink positions when the
2200/7600/9600 chips have been reverse engineered.

>
> D - Would this not be a great poll?

I think it would be interesting and necessary for you, but the results
probably should be taken with a grain of salt.

By the way, thank you for contributing to the list and taking the time to
answer questions. Participation by the people who bring us the products we
use is greatly appreciated. Most importantly asking the users what they
want. (Even if we don't have good answers. <G>)

Martin Wesley