Digital BW, The Print

And how about the question, how much fading is necessary before one 
calls it unacceptable?  In my humble opinion
if I can tell just by looking at the print that it has changed at all, 
that's too much. In low light conditions, I don't think
I've ever seen fading on any papers or inks. It's only when they get the 
full sun in the sunny window that the
problems arise.

The exception would be Epson's first inks. Every print I've made on them 
has faded huge amounts as well as
color shifted.  But this was about 8 years ago or so.

Jerry



Editor P.O.V. Image Service wrote:
> 
> Jerry Olson wrote:
> 
> 
>>Keith, out of curiosity, can anyone agree on the exact longevity of the
>>term "Archival" ? 
>>
> 
> Agree? Nah...
> 
> Harald argues for a "granny standard" of 60 years in his new book...
> 
> The Blue Wool 6+ standard applies to Lightfastness (I believe 
> essentially for defining something as "Fine Art" by UK "fine Art Guild" 
> rules)
> 
> 
>>Is there so many years a print has to exist with no
>>changes at all to be called that?  How about museums?  When they
>>announce that they use "Archival Mattes" How long must they last before
>>they show signs of yellowing?
>> 
>>
> 
> Well, literally, in the US, the term really means anything that has been 
> archived..  The problem is what it implies about paper permanence..  One 
> would reasonably expect it to have longevity significantly beyond that 
> of more widely used paper media.
> 
> 
>>Many years ago I bought an Ansel Adams print, (dogwood blossoms), at the
>>Yosemite Gallery.  It was mounted on an "Archival" Matboard, and there
>>is an "Archival" Museum Quality Window Matte overlaying the image. Well,
>>over the years the mat has most definitely yellowed, and quite a bit.
>>
> 
> Generally, Archival Matte has been taken to mean acid free... The focus 
> there has always been on making a matte that will not add to any 
> degradation or additional aging of the matted media.. So, yellowing of 
> the matte is acceptable as long as it  does not cause yellowing of the 
> print, etc..  That's part of the confusion, the term is used differently...
> 
> 
>>The white dogwood blossoms are pure white.  The difference is obvious.
>>So even if something is labeled "Archival" it probably will be many
>>years before we can know if that is true or not. I just have this
>>feeling that no inkjet prints are at the present time, truly archival. 
>> 
>>
> 
> My feelings as well..
> 
> There are HUGE inherent problems in accelerated testing... Here are two: 
>  1) It is based on a threshold % of image fading.. What happens when 
> with color images you get seriously skewed differential fade? Isn't a 
> print that fades that way worthless sooner than one that fades at a 
> fairly consistent rate across the spectrum?    2) Witness how the 
> "orange shift" fiasco caught EPSON and Wilhelm off-guard..  
> 
> Only time in the REAL WORLD (not the MTV version either) under a variety 
> of conditions can tell any of us for sure..
> 
> 
>>But if they last as long as a silver print, maybe that's good enough.
>>
>> 
>>
> 
> I think that if B&W images last a long as an archivally processed fiber 
> based silver print, I'll be more than happy... For color images if they 
> make it as far, say,  as Fuji Crystal  or Ilfochrome prints, I'll be happy.
> Keith
> 
>  
> 
> "Just some guy," and founder of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
> User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
> Publications), at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSONx7x_Printers/
>  
> "For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
> guys"
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
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