Digital BW, The Print

I have a couple or 3 questions for you Imageprint 5 Desktop version
owners. Like you, I am put off by the ridiculous pricing strategy being
employed for desktop printers. I'm deciding on upgrading my printing
system with either a 2200 or 2 1280's. To date, I have exclusively used
3rd party inks and CIS's. Fiddling with the tiny and expensive 2200
carts would only be tolerated if there was a clear and present
improvement in print quality. I'm wondering if using IP with 2 1280's,
one quad and one Gen4 or 5, is a viable option. I think to have to pay
$375 to add a duplicate of the same printer model just with different
inks is outrageous. Does IP5 just key into the model and port of the
registered printer, or does it get some serial number info from the
printer itself? IOW, I would put up with swapping the 2 printers into
the same USB port (having only 1 connected at a time) to avoid what
amounts to extortion by Colorbyte. Do you think that would work?
(Surely, that doesn't violate the license. What if a printer died and
you had to replace it?)

I realize Colorbyte has said that they would not support 3rd party color
inks. But, if you bought IP5 and sent them a 1280 color target printed
with Gen4, they'd have to profile it for you, right?

Second, I read the find print on Colobyte's site which stated that Auto
print, print tiling, and color correction is disabled on the desktop
version of IP. The first two features are clearly explained and I could
do without them. But it's unclear just exactly what is meant by disabled
color correction. That sounds ominous. I would certainly want
clarification of exactly what limitation that imposes because that could
be a deal-killer. Can y'all elaborate on what is meant by that on the
web page?

Lloyd




-----Original Message-----
From: jim hayes <jimhayes@...> [mailto:jimhayes@...] 
Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 10:11 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Colorbyte and Ink questions


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Fors" 
<tom@f...> wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <jharvey@i...>
> > OK, Some of you have had experience with the Colorbyte software
RIP.
> > At this point, what do you think its value is for B&W printing
with
> > the New Epson color Inks as well as the Inks available through
MIS,
> > Jon Cone, Etc..Is it Definately worth the money?
> 
> I've been happy with ImagePrint (IP) for my 2200 simply because it's
given
> me neutral B&W prints with no noticeable metamerism.  But the prints
don't
> compare to piezography.  The 2200 through IP looks good, but there
are more
> noticeable dots in the highlights than what you can do with a
quadtone ink
> set.


Well, okay maybe, but what magnification are you looking at them with? 
Just eyeballing Paul's enhanced step wedge, the 5% to 0%k look great 
with my 2200 and IP5...

I just compared 5%k  IP5 on photorag with 5%k  MIS VM 1440 on Legion 
Photomat (sorry, the only wedges I have at the ready at the moment), 
and with an 8x loupe there definitely are dots apparent on both, the 
VM dots being a little rougher. The dots on the IP5 photorag tend to 
blend into the the little texture that paper has. FWIW. Photomat is 
smoother though...


My prioity #1 is: get something, anything, that works without killing 
printer, turning green, etc. The old Piezo inks broke down on me, and 
messed up my 1160. So I'm gunshy of Piezo, perhaps now unfairly with 
the PT inks. To be fair, I haven't tried the PT inks, and MIS VM inks 
have given me all kinds of clogging grief in my dry climate. I am 
currently investigating an intermitant banding problem with the 2200, 
but I'm finding that it doesn't show up very often- and Colorbyte 
folks say I probably have a defective printer. It doesn't clog hardly 
at all except for that one day when I ran about 20 prints. MIS VM inks 
in my 1280 clogged every 12 hours-1 1/2 days by comparison.

Comparing  prints w/MIS VM 2880dpi curves ( obtained privately from 
Paul) with IP5 output, well, IP5 just blows it away. Maybe the 
standard finished 1440 dpi curves would work better. There is greater 
detail and at the same time more even transistions across tones. Also, 
there are even steps across the step wedge, no color casts, etc. Only 
thing is from about 96%k to 100%k values are a wee bit compressed. 
Using Eclipse paper I currently have a mottling problem at 100%k which 
I'm working on now with colorbyte. VM inkset has the same issue which 
can be corrected by tweaking curves. Photorag is better.

> 
> What I'm not happy about is the price.  For desktop printers it's
$500 for a
> single printer.

Agreed. This is a killer.



  To add another desktop, I believe they quoted me an
> additional $375.  That gets you 90 days of support and upgrades from
them.


Yes the 90 days bother me greatly, esp since they're not done 
re-writing the software! For example, they don't tell you but you 
can't yet print MAT papers at 2880....this capability will be added 
very shortly they say. Photo k papers are supported 2880 now.

OTOH, tech support is great. They need to update their manual though, 
adding tricks like how to REALLY set up a firewire printer in Win2000. 
What is stated now on website is incorrect.

> It's an additional $500 every year after for support and upgrades, 
and I
> believe the maintenance price is per printer as well!

John at colorbyte told me after the first purchase, no maintainance 
agreements for the 2200 could be bought, even for another $500. 7600 
is another story. Seems odd though- you'd think they wouldn't mind 
taking our money...maybe I heard it wrong.

  And, you have 
to stay
> current with your maintenance contract to take advantage of their 
paper
> profiling service.


John at Colorbyte told me even after 90 days runs out, I could always 
send in a target to get a new paper profiled. No time limit on this 
service- and it is planned to be free.

> 
> I think IP would probably perform very well with quadtone inks.  In 
fact, if
> money grew on trees, I'd buy an additional IP license for a 1280 and 
use it
> with the MIS FS or VM inks.

If I lived in Florida instead of 5000 feet above sea level and 20-40% 
humidity I'd consider it...


  But, I'm not going to put any more 
money into
> this since this is just my hobby.  It's not my profession.


Sort of my situation, though I continually show in a co-op gallery.

> 
> If you can hold off until March, Jon Cone is going to announce new 
software
> for his Piezotone inks at PMA.  I'm curious to see if this will be a 
custom
> version of IP for use with his inks only.  I know he thinks highly 
of the
> software.



> 
> If you've never used IP before, be prepared for a sharp learning 
curve.
> There are many aspects of the user interface that are non-intuitive,


Well I learn fast, being one of those that actually WILL read a 600 
page manual (no IP5 manual is not that long<g>) and snarf it down. I 
would phrase it as "too many features built in". You can just bypass a 
lot of stuff. I was up and running in two days, not counting firewire 
problems. I was surprised to find that the most difficult part of the 
interface was determining where to place image in the printing field 
displayed, as it automatically adds borders to edge (left and right 
edge 1/8 inch, top edge 3/16 inch for letter sized). So There's some 
fractional math to go through.

The most important part of IP5 is getting the color management 
settings right.

 
and
> they haven't updated their documentation to include the 2200 yet 
which
> caused me a lot of grief immediately after I installed it.

Yes, I hear you there. Two sentences would have made clear how to set 
up 2200 with firewire...

  I don't 
know if
> it's only the 2200 that was left out or if there are other printers 
not
> mentioned in the documentation.  Also, with the desktop "version", 
don't try
> to use any of the color correction tools even though they are active 
and
> appear to work.  It will -- without informing you -- switch into 
"demo mode"
> and you'll only know this once you print and see the word DEMO 
stamped
> across your images.

And expect to find strange bugs here and there.I tried a step and 
repeat, couldn't get image dupes to show up on monitor, so I just 
printed- and it printed "white" no ink) where  stepped images "were". 
I need to read that part of manual again.

> 
> I wish I could say it is definitely worth the money, but I can't.  I 
feel
> like I just paid 1st class prices for a coach seat, and I'm locked 
into that
> price if I want to book a return flight.  I suspect they're 
alienating a lot
> of potential users off the bat with their pricing and maintenance 
policy.

Hear hear. I think $300 might be reasonable. OR, extend the warranty 
out to 1 year. Oh well, it IS a good product.

> 
> I recommend you get the demo version and try it for yourself before 
you buy.

Good idea.

> Call them on the phone to order it though.  I've had problems 
getting email
> through to their tech support in the past, so I recommend dealing 
with them
> over the phone.
>

I've had luck with e-mail too. When you phone (tech support), you have 
to leave a number for a call back. So have your cell phone on to 
intercept the return call when it comes...<g> The sales number (and 
the number on site) is different, and 50% of time I have found a real 
human on the other side of the line.
 
> I think if ColorByte improved the user interface and brought the 
pricing
> back down to earth, they'd have a fantastic product and would make 
more
> money because more people would buy it.

Agreed. I'd add that as is, I am satisfied with it's performance. I 
just wish Santa had bought it for me<g>.
Jim H.

> 
> --Tom


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