Digital BW, The Print

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Fors" 
<tom@f...> wrote:
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <jimhayes@f...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 10:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Colorbyte and Ink questions
> 
> 
> >
> > Well, okay maybe, but what magnification are you looking at them 
with?
> > Just eyeballing Paul's enhanced step wedge, the 5% to 0%k look 
great
> > with my 2200 and IP5...
> 
> I'm looking at it with no additional magnification.  Granted though, 
my nose
> is about 12 inches from the print.  When printing Paul's step wedge 
with the
> Epson driver, I can see no dots in the highlights, but even using 
the gray
> balancer, I get noticable metamerism for B&W prints.  With IP, even 
though I
> notice more dots in the highlights, I didn't mean to imply it was a
> show-stopper.  It is very good, and I'm very happy with the neutral 
prints
> that exhibit no noticeable metamerism.

Interesting, I didn't try comparing the 2200 Epson driver output to 
IP5... I compared MIS VM on 1280 done at 1440 dpi on Legion Photomat 
with 2200/IP5 1440 Photorag. Just the differing papers could of thrown 
it off. Nonetheless, no dots were visible without a loupe. My eyes 
might need new glasses tho<g>

Yes, IP5 seems to clear up those funny casts- unless you choose them 
in the tint picker, and then they're smooth across the step wedge. I 
haven't tried the grey balancer, don't have it. 

  If there were septone gray 
inks
> available for the 2200, or even some kind of color/gray hybrid ink 
set, I
> think the 2200 would make the ultimate B&W desktop machine.


Agreed. My main prioity as I have stated before is to be conservative 
and pick a system that has the least compatibility issues with the 
printer (i.e. clogging, ink breakdown, etc). From this viewpoint I 
might be willing to sacrifice some print quality for proven 
reliability. And I can tell Epson I AM using their inks when it goes 
south...

  I asked
> colorbyte about support for 3rd party inks and the answer I got from 
Daniel
> in tech support was:
> 
> # We do plan to keep updating our support for the quadtones and MIS,
> although
> # its tough to say positively which ones and when.  As they come 
out, we
> # usually fit them into our schedule as soon as possible.
> 
> > I am currently investigating an intermitant banding problem with 
the
> > 2200, but I'm finding that it doesn't show up very often- and
> > Colorbyte folks say I probably have a defective printer.
> 
> That's interesting.  There was only once I noticed banding with my 
2200 and
> that was immediately after I switched from matte black to photo 
black.
> After a second print, it went away and hasn't come back.

I can't get it to come back either. Frustrating- when I want it to 
come back so I can study it, it won't. It may have something to do 
with how long I let printer sit idle.

> 
> I don't print with photo black anymore.  The bronzing I saw on the 
premium
> lustre paper was very annoying.
> 
> >
> > OTOH, tech support is great. They need to update their manual 
though,
> > adding tricks like how to REALLY set up a firewire printer in 
Win2000.
> > What is stated now on website is incorrect.
> 
> Yes, I had problems with both USB and Firewire initially.  I was 
following
> their instructions.  Another customer of theirs saw my post and 
helped me
> get it installed properly.  Their tech support has been really 
helpful
> though for other issues I had.  They even sent me the unfinished 
section on
> the 2200 from the new manual.  Although, they claimed the new manual 
would
> be done in about a week and they'd send it to me.  That was Dec. 5 
and I
> haven't heard from them.

I'ld like to get that. I was also told that the online tutorial would 
be put on CD, which would be excellent. I'm still waiting for the 2880 
dpi for mat papers to come out- last I heard it wasn't ready yet.

> 
> > John at colorbyte told me after the first purchase, no 
maintainance
> > agreements for the 2200 could be bought, even for another $500. 
7600
> > is another story. Seems odd though- you'd think they wouldn't mind
> > taking our money...maybe I heard it wrong.
> 
> Yes, that does seem odd.  Jane was the one that told me about the
> maintenance at $495 a year.  I hope they're not going to make us pay 
another
> $500 once they finish rewriting the software.

<groan>

> 
> > John at Colorbyte told me even after 90 days runs out, I could 
always
> > send in a target to get a new paper profiled. No time limit on 
this
> > service- and it is planned to be free.
> 
> That's good to know.  Again, I got a slightly different story from 
Jane.
> John Pannozzo is the president though, so his answers are probably 
more
> accurate.

It did seem clear to me. Check with John again for accuracy, I've 
heard things wrong before<g>.

  In fact, Daniel in tech support told me, "Technically, 
yes, the
> support contracts are per printer.  I don't set the prices, but the 
man to
> talk to (or email) here is John Pannozzo about pricing issues
> (johnp@c...)."
> 
> > Well I learn fast, being one of those that actually WILL read a 
600
> > page manual (no IP5 manual is not that long<g>) and snarf it down. 
I
> > would phrase it as "too many features built in". You can just 
bypass a
> > lot of stuff. I was up and running in two days, not counting 
firewire
> > problems. I was surprised to find that the most difficult part of 
the
> > interface was determining where to place image in the printing 
field
> > displayed, as it automatically adds borders to edge (left and 
right
> > edge 1/8 inch, top edge 3/16 inch for letter sized). So There's 
some
> > fractional math to go through.
> 
> Yes, the assymetrical borders threw me initially as well.

And it is possible to specify a grid that is in 1/16 inch increments 
even though it gives you an error dialogue- just click ok and it sets 
it up. Now snapping to a 1/16 inch grid on even a 22 inch monitor is 
another matter...


  The 
biggest
> problems I had were:
> 1. USB and Firewire installation.  -- I was following the 
instructions and
> they didn't work.
> 2. Using a gray profile with the wrong inkset selected.  -- The
> documentation made no mention of inksets for the 2200, and by using 
the
> wrong one, my step wedges were coming out red!


You mean in the printer setup dialogue where you choose grey mat 
instead of cmy pig? Tricky<g>. Fortunately I didn't have to waste ink 
on this because tech support walked me through this when they helped 
me set up firewire connection.

> 3. When you want to sheet feed paper, you have to check the box 
which wasn't
> on by default or you get out of paper errors.

Yes, walked through this as well<g>. They need to update that 
manual...

  The Epson driver just 
assumed
> you were sheet feeding unless you told it you weren't.
> 4. Using a color correction tool in IP and having it switch silently 
to DEMO
> mode.


> 
> > The most important part of IP5 is getting the color management
> > settings right.
> 
> I agree.  I followed their documentation closely on this, but unless 
you use
> an inkset compatible with the profile you've selected, you get weird 
results
> like red ink where it should be paper white.  One email from 
colorbyte with
> an explanation of their ink settings and their purpose was all it 
took to
> clarify this.

It gets easy once you get the hang of it. My toughie here was deciding 
whether to use the embedded profile (I have some odd legacy ones) or 
discard (which then defaults to the gamma 2.2 I chose in Imageprint as 
my greyscale space). Most often  I find dropping the profile is 
better; having a more or less wysiwyg in Imageprint helps with this.

> 
> > And expect to find strange bugs here and there.I tried a step and
> > repeat, couldn't get image dupes to show up on monitor, so I just
> > printed- and it printed "white" no ink) where  stepped images 
"were".
> > I need to read that part of manual again.
> 
> I never got step and repeat to work either.  I figured it was 
another one of
> those features that was not supported in the desktop version.  On 
second
> though though, if that were the case, it would work, but would stamp 
DEMO on
> the prints.  Have you talked to their tech support on this yet?  I 
also
> haven't tried using templates or AutoPrint yet, so I have no idea 
what
> surprises await me there.

No, I should talk to them. My big thing is templates because I think I 
could do custom ones that would place one image correctly on page, 
avoiding math and counting gridlines.
Jim H.

> 
> > Hear hear. I think $300 might be reasonable. OR, extend the 
warranty
> > out to 1 year. Oh well, it IS a good product.
> 
> I agree.  It is a good product that could be better, and it's priced 
wrong.