Digital BW, The Print

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Lloyd O'Daniel" 
<lodaniel@b...> wrote:
> Tom and Jim,
> 
> For the record, I wasn't suggesting "passing off" a target printed 
with
> Generations as being OEM ink. Jim's right...that would be a 
disservice
> to others.

NO no...PLEASE don't think I meant you would do it. Apologies if you 
felt that way. I used the word "hypothetically" in the sense that 
"generically, this is logically what would result if people did this". 
A sort of layman philosopical speculation, if you will.<g> It 
stresses more in my mind the fact that when I send in a profile, I 
need to make sure that I haven't printed on the wrong side, printed at 
the wrong dpi, used unspecified "ink reduction", done a nozzle check 
beforehand, set color management options or print setup options 
wrongly, you get the idea. 



 My thinking is that if I pay $500 for $100 software and
> "free" profiling is part of the justification for that, then I damn 
well
> ought to be able to get profiles made with both the inks and papers 
of
> my choosing!

Agreed. Personally, I think I might pay as much as $300 (tops) 
realistically for what I got. But others will feel differently. Moot 
point though, as I seem to have paid $500<g>


 IOW, I'd tell them up front it's Gen. I don't see 
anywhere
> on their website that the profiling service is limited to OEM ink.

No it's not. There are a few  profiles for MIS-FS for 1280, though of 
course I haven't used them. Also there are some profiles that appear 
to be linked to Piezo papers and ink.

> Refusal to do so after the fact would result in complaint to the
> consumer protection authorities.


John seemed easy going to me on the specific subject of running free 
profiles, even after 90 support period ends. As always check with him 
to be sure.

> 
> I'm glad to read that Colorbyte's President hasn't completely lost 
touch
> with reality and plans to update his pricing strategies for the 
small
> printers. I believe he should rethink the ban on 3rd party color ink
> sets as well.

HHmmmm...I don't recall seeing any COLOR profiles for 3rd party ink 
just off the top of my head. I DID see some for the 1270 OEM inkset 
(of course a dye inkset). I think there was some profiles for the 
2000P, which would be OEM pigment. And of course there are all the 
2200  OEM color profiles. No Generations though.


 They do claim to support the 1200 series of printers. 
Who
> in their right mind would buy a $500 RIP for a printer that is only
> useable with inks that fade in a year? I also don't see that expense 
for
> quads only. There are surely some of you out there that are so into 
B&W
> that you might do that, but not me. There are good, less expensive
> alternatives to IP for quads.

Yes, definitely. I have a special situstion that led me down this 
path. I'm sure Piezo and MIS have very good solutions...I have used 
both in the past. Where I live seems to be harsh on 3rd party pig inks 
in the 1160 and 1280, it's hard for me to keep the printers reliably 
printing. So I am trying out the 2200/IP5. It is a high risk thing for 
me to do. I made the descion that for $1200 total I was going to try a 
new approach, minimizing the number of things bought from different 
sources. In this case the ink and printer were "made" for each other, 
I just had to get software that worked as good as I could get it 
because Epson fell down in that department.

I hope it works. IP5 I am pleased with so far even with it's bugs. The 
 2200- only time will tell.

> 
> The more I read about the beta-software type problems you are having
> with the 2200 version of IP, my feet are getting colder and colder.

Good point. But in fairness I should say that the bugs don't get in 
the way of getting fabulous prints. Most of the stuff is minor or can 
be worked around. I don't have to do a lot of bending (tweaking) over 
backwards either- it is a Piezo like solution more than an MIS 
solution. I wish the manual was better at the point I read it, but 
tech support brought me up to speed really fast in compensation. These 
folks I know work really hard to produce a good product and it shows 
in the output. And they are very nice to talk to.
 
If
> the software is still a work-in-progress, then I would want a 
guarantee
> of free upgrades before I would buy.

I worry about this too. 

 Heck, from what I've read
> lately...the 2200 itself doesn't seem very reliable.

Well, perhaps if I went into a little more detail about my particular 
case:

I heard of one poster on the Epson x7x group that had a complete color 
 go out in a nozzle check after four weeks. And Colorbyte folks told 
me that some 2200 can have intermitant banding issues, but I didn't 
get the full story. I can tell you that one day I got three banding 
problems spring up during a period when I printed off about 20-30 8x10 
equivilents. In all cases one cleaning cycle was the most I had to do 
to clear it. This was after leaving printer off for six days. It 
hasn't returned yet.

I get more than my share of clogs, mainly with MIS VM/ 1280, even with 
non CFS/CIS carts. I had to run the printer every 12 hours just to 
keep it clear. Heck, even now with Epson dye inks back in my 1280 it 
needs to be run about every two or three days just to keep good nozzle 
checks. Don't use me as a yardstick, I am an extreme example of 
clogging issues. I can easily leave 2200 off for two or three days it 
seems, though I am still looking at this.


 Perhaps now is 
not
> the time to upgrade after all.


I think my 2200/IP5 decsion is a "cusp" determination. If you need to 
be on the edge, either because you demand the best prints and have 
money to experiment, or like me, you are spending too much money 
running ink through printers and can't leave the studio for more than 
12 hours in the last year so that your 1280 will be happy- then it's 
worth it.

Otherwise use your best judgement and jump in when your own situation 
best dictates- whatever printer/ink/RIP you go with.
Jim H.

> 
> Lloyd
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Thomas Fors [mailto:tom@f...] 
> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2002 4:00 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Colorbyte and Ink questions
> 
> 
> 
> I thought the original question was about printing targets with 3rd
> party color inks and passing it off to Colorbyte as if they were OEM
> inks just to get them to profile it.  In that case, they might have 
a
> problem if their policy is to not support 3rd party color inks and 
it
> looks like you're duplicating a printer/ink/dpi combo that already
> exists.
> 
> --Tom
> 
> 
> 
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