Digital BW, The Print

You guys are so spoilt. Where I come from, the hasselblad digi back 
is $40,000. If I could get it for 20k, I'd be in like a shot

Garry Sarre
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Robert Morrison 
<rmorrison@p...> wrote:
> Its funny, a camera not quite as good as my D1...4-5 years ago was 
$75K.  It
> will be interesting to see how much the 2.25 back comes down in 
price.  It
> doesn't have the relatively volume market that a D1 does 
(photojournalism).
> I imagine that every wedding photographer and his brother that 
shoots a
> mamiya or hasselblad would love to shoot digital because of the 
certainty of
> getting the shot and time savings...but there probably aren't 
enough of them
> willing to put out $20K to actually drive the price down in the long
> run...it will be interesting to see if the people making the 2.25 
back
> ultimately take the same chance that Nikon did when they released 
the D1 at
> 1/5 the price of the competition at the time.
> 
> My guess is that the focus of digital in the future will stick with 
35mm
> bodies.  If Nikon made a 35mm sized CCD and used the technology 
that they
> are using in the D1X, I doubt anyone, regardless of their target 
output,
> would need more file size.  My D1 images shot in RAW mode simply 
have no
> noise.  As a result, these relatively small files can be scaled way 
beyond
> what I can do with a TMAX negative scanned in my SS4000 because of 
the
> grain.  The digital images are a hell of a lot easier to retouch as 
well
> because of the absence of grain...of course if you like grain you 
will need
> to use a filter to make some :-)  If Nikon and Canon made the 
monitors on
> the back of their pro cameras flip up...you'd have an F5 and a 
Hasselblad
> all in one package that you could put lenses on that cost a 
fraction of what
> 2.25 lens cost...could be interesting.
> 
> Robert
> 
> 
> 
> On 9/8/01 7:54 AM, "Jerry Olson" <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> 
> > Robert, Even if I could afford 20K for a 2 1/4 back, I'd never 
pay it,
> > simply because to me, it is so overpriced as to be absurd.
> > 
> > Jerry
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Robert Morrison wrote:
> >> 
> >> So what you really want is a Hasselblad, not a F5?!?  I enjoy 
using my Nikon
> >> 990 as a poor man's Hasselblad, sneaking up on unexpecting 
pedestrians and
> >> museum guards.  My D1 takes the pictures I'm not afraid to be 
seen taking.
> >> Just shot 15 rolls of TMAX400 on an F100...should be interesting 
to see how
> >> similar shots taken with the D1 compare. From what I understand 
the D1X
> >> blows away everything on the market except for the Digital 
Hasselblad back
> >> ($20K).  But if you have Canon lenses then Canon it must be.
> >> 
> >> Robert
> >> 
> >> On 9/7/01 5:53 PM, "Jerry Olson" <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> >> 
> >>> Thanks for the info. I'm waiting for the next Canon, myself.
> >>> 
> >>> Sure wish they had a waist level finder, or a swing out Monitor.
> >>> 
> >>> Jerry
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> Robert Morrison wrote:
> >>> 
> >>>> No...its shaped like a F5, feels like an F5, and layed out 
like an F5...but
> >>>> is not an F5...its a D1X.  Nikon and Canon don't make digital 
cameras like
> >>>> Kodak...thank God...they aren't as big either.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Robert
> >>>> 
> >>>> On 9/7/01 1:18 PM, "Jerry Olson" <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> >>>> 
> >>>>> but if it has no removable prism, It can't really be an F5 
body, can it?
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> There's an awful lot you cannot do if you don't have the 
removable prism.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Jerry
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Robert Morrison wrote:
> >>>>> 
> >>>>>>> Does the DX1 have that sports viewfinder the F4 and F5 had 
available?
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Probably not.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> It was
> >>>>>>> terrific, if pricy. Is the DX1 truly an F5 body?
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Yes, same metering and controls, but obviously many extra 
controls.
> >>>>>> Feels
> >>>>>> very similar...although a bit heavier.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> Does it have a
> >>>>>>> removeable prism?
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> No
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Robert
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> David Brugge wrote:
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Garry Sarre"
> >>>>>>>> <gazzzzperth@y...> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>> Ideally I would like to shoot digital, but the medium 
format
> >>>>>>>> digital
> >>>>>>>>> backs for hasselblad are a bit pricey here ($50,000 by 
the time you
> >>>>>>>>> upgrade the blad) and the next step down is to 35mm maybe 
a Nikon
> >>>>>>>> d1X
> >>>>>>>>> (I think) but I can't see the subjects expression big 
enough
> >>>>>>>> through
> >>>>>>>>> the viewfinder. I need to see exactly what the eyes are 
doing so
> >>>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>>> I can choose the moment to click. This was a big 
dissappointment
> >>>>>>>> when
> >>>>>>>>> trying 35mm digital for portrait. Subject expression is 
everything
> >>>>>>>>> in my stuff.
> >>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> Garry,
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> I am not a portrait photographer, but I shoot a lot of 
kids for
> >>>>>>>> advertising. Because I seldom have to do extreme 
enlargements, I
> >>>>>>>> don't need to shoot medium format. I DO have to see the 
eyes, so 35mm
> >>>>>>>> just doesn't get it for me.
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> Lately I started experimenting with digital camera 
equipment. I'm
> >>>>>>>> waiting for the dust to settle a little before I invest 
any real
> >>>>>>>> dollars into equipment. In the meantime I got a Nikon 990, 
just to
> >>>>>>>> fool around.
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> A neat feature that I didn't know about is the video out 
port. I can
> >>>>>>>> mount the camera on a tripod and hook up a regular TV as a 
monitor. I
> >>>>>>>> took this setup to a shoot and halfway through the shoot, 
turned the
> >>>>>>>> monitor around so that the kids could see themselves. I 
worked great!
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> I can get a very respectable image from the little camera 
in full
> >>>>>>>> TIFF mode, but the refresh rate at HI setting is just too 
long (about
> >>>>>>>> 45 sec.) to be used for serious work.
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> I mention this because you MAY want to consider something 
like the
> >>>>>>>> D1H or D1X (very fast refresh rate, much higher quality 
output) with
> >>>>>>>> a video monitor, just to get your feet wet.
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> David Brugge
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, 
Bookmarks, Polls
> >>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>> other resources as they are often being updated. The page 
is at:
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >>>>>>>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, 
Bookmarks, Polls and
> >>>>>>> other
> >>>>>>> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >>>>>>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> ----------------------
> >>>>>> Robert Morrison
> >>>>>> rmorrison@p...
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 310-397-2704
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 4131 Bledsoe Ave.
> >>>>>> Los Angeles, CA 90066
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, 
Bookmarks, Polls and
> >>>>>> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is 
at:
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, 
Bookmarks, Polls and
> >>>>> other
> >>>>> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> ----------------------
> >>>> Robert Morrison
> >>>> rmorrison@p...
> >>>> 
> >>>> 310-397-2704
> >>>> 
> >>>> 4131 Bledsoe Ave.
> >>>> Los Angeles, CA 90066
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
Polls and
> >>>> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is 
at:
> >>>> 
> >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
Polls and
> >>> other
> >>> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> >>> 
> >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >> 
> >> ----------------------
> >> Robert Morrison
> >> rmorrison@p...
> >> 
> >> 310-397-2704
> >> 
> >> 4131 Bledsoe Ave.
> >> Los Angeles, CA 90066
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
Polls and
> >> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> >> 
> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
Polls and other
> > resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > 
> > 
> 
> ----------------------
> Robert Morrison
> rmorrison@p...
> 
> 310-397-2704
> 
> 4131 Bledsoe Ave.
> Los Angeles, CA 90066