Digital BW, The Print

Hi Ken,

Let's take your high contrast scene.  Lets assume that 14 stops of 
scene brightness are mapped to a a film density range of .05 to 1.8 
with the zone system compensations.  When you scan that piece of film 
and apply the set points you will then map a density of .05 to  100%k 
and the density of 1.8 to 0%k.

Take an identical exposure of the same scene with anther piece of film. 
  This film has no development compensation.  The 14 stops of scene 
brightness are then mapped to a density range of .06 to 2.3.  When you 
scan that piece of film and apply the set points you will map the 
density of of .06 to 100%k and a density of 2.3 to 0%k.

It seems to me that as long as the maximum film density is within the 
specs of your scanner it doesn't matter whether you used N or N-4 
development.  You have to make the scene brightness fit between black 
and white one way or another.  You can do it with development or math 
in the scanner.  The result, it seems to me is the same.

Clearly you have to set a film speed appropriately to capture the 
shadow details but I am not convinced that modifying the film 
development is required to capture the highlights when you are scanning 
a negative.

That is what I am trying to come to grips with.

Thanks for your help

On Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 06:23 PM, Ken Carney wrote:

>> From my perspective, the point of the zone system is to get a 
>> negative with
> reasonable shadow and highlight tones.  If you have a negative with a
> blown-out highlight, I don't think any scanner will help you.  For 
> example,
> take a high contrast scene that may take N-4 development (here reduced 
> film
> speed and compensating development in dilute HC110 or TMax RS).  I 
> have many
> negs like this that scan well, but I can't picture how I could get a 
> good
> tonal range with say, normal development.  In fact, the only problems 
> I have
> had in scanning LF negs with expanded and compressed development have 
> been
> those developed in pyro (Rollo or PMK), since the stain produces some
> challenges in getting a good scan.  I would say go for the best neg you
> would use for a silver print.
>
> Regards,
>
>   --Ken Carney
>     www.kencarney.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kevin Gulstene" <kevin@...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 5:53 PM
> Subject: [Digital BW] Scanning and Zone Sys Development.
>
>
>> Is zone system development time manipulation irrelevant when scanning
>> film as opposed to traditional printing?   That is the question I 
>> would
>> like some help with.
>>
>> My understanding is that the zone system is way of ensuring a  
>> constant
>> density range on the negative independent of the brightness range of
>> the scene.  This is desirable because it makes most scenes printable 
>> on
>> a grade 2 paper (leaving the other grades available for artistic
>> interpretation) and it helps minimize the stuffing around in the
>> darkroom required to get a good print.
>>
>> Since I am not doing wet prints but am scanning the negatives, it 
>> seems
>> to me that the N- or N+ development dependent on the scene brightness
>> range is, mostly, irrelevant.  By setting the black point, setting the
>> white point and scanning the negative am I not mapping the entire
>> density range of the image to a numerical range of 0-256 or 0-64k?
>> This mapping would take place independent of the absolute density any
>> particular zone.
>>
>> As a hypothetical example lets assume a scene contains a 8 stop range
>> of brightness.  Three images are similarly exposed to capture that
>> brightnesses range. The three images are given different development
>> times and produce density ranges of  (1.0-0.3=.7), (1.4-0.4=1.0) and
>> (2.0-.5=1.5).  When the images are scanned each one will produce a 
>> full
>> histogram from 0 to 255 and a scene brightness at the 6th of the eight
>> stops will show up at the same place in each of the histograms.
>>
>> Soooo, can't I simplify the zone mantra to "expose for the shadows and
>> let the highlights fall where they may with normal development".  
>> Also,
>>   wouldn't it be better to generally use N+1 development times so that
>> the numbers from the raw scan occupied more of the scanner's range?
>>
>> Thanks for your help
>>
>>
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