Digital BW, The Print

----- Original Message -----
From: "nick90290" <NickBrandt@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 12:40 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Lyson SG problems


> Hi Keith
>
> Just a word of caution - the shift to green that I and at least
the
> friends I know who used them have always been most noticeable
on
> warm-tinted prints. I don't know if you're doing those.
>
> As a test, I would try making a print of something with exactly
the
> same hue setting as a print you made a few months ago, and hold
them
> side by side in the daylight (incandsecent is incredibly
deceptive,
> covering all manner of color problems). And see if there's a
> difference.
>
> Nick


Nick,

I also think that the great divide between prints that fade and
that don't fade yet is in the used papers. Like with all other
dye inks (semi)gloss paper with a gelatine coating can be far
more compatible with the ink than matt coated papers can be.
About 25 years like Wide Spectrum and the Epson 10000 dye ink on
gelatine papers seems to be possible. That is CcMmYK ink, don't
know how long the black inks keep their density though. Don't
think that Wilhelm paid much attention to that otherwise he
wouldn't have rated Generations 4 with dye in the black so high.
Months before Wilhelm got the bad results with Fotonic on matt
Lyson papers we already had that problem, Lysonic E was no cure
as the red was really bad in colour and fading of the cmY inks
still happened, a short experience with Van Son UV dyes was as
bad. The next step was Staedtler's pigment ink but that had the
small gamut of the Roland, Mutoh etc pigment inks, not what I
wanted. Things became a lot better with Generations 4 despite the
fading (to some extent) of the black and the Lm. No gloss
printing done here so far. Epson Archival pigment had some
advantages but also some nasty effects so no reason to abandon
Generations or buy a 9500. With the arrival of Ultrachrome and
the clones there could be a reason to switch colour inks again.
I've received MIS 7600 brand together with the Ultratones that
are already in one 9000. But there are repeat orders that have to
be done with Generations.

The test you describe here has too many flaws. John Nollendorfs
of Lincoln inks (Wide Spectrum) has written me that humidity
during the life of a dye print is an important factor in fading
(and so part of the Wilhelm test) but also that he and Henry
Wilhelm suspect that humidity at that time of printing itself has
an influence on fade properties later on. All in all there are
too many conditions that have to be controlled when printing dyes
that one could say they can be nice in real test conditions but
not reliable for normal use. That is if they have to last. If
your experience is that the prints fade then there's evidence
enough, especially when it is based on the quantity of prints
that you have made.

Ernst