Digital BW, The Print

Ernst - I'm a big fan of Lincoln inks which I use on a gelatin paper - 
no fading yet but I've only had them for 12 months. From you email, is 
John now saying that he doubts if dyes can be useful? Emaikls I've had 
from him in the past suggest that dyes are still the best inks for a 
wide colour gamut if you can accept the 15-25 year lifespan.

Julian

----- Mensaje Original -----
De: "Ernst Dinkla" <E.Dinkla@...>
Fecha: Miercoles, Mayo 14, 2003 10:22 am
Asunto: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Lyson SG problems

> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "nick90290" <NickBrandt@...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 12:40 AM
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Lyson SG problems
> 
> 
> > Hi Keith
> >
> > Just a word of caution - the shift to green that I and at least
> the
> > friends I know who used them have always been most noticeable
> on
> > warm-tinted prints. I don't know if you're doing those.
> >
> > As a test, I would try making a print of something with exactly
> the
> > same hue setting as a print you made a few months ago, and hold
> them
> > side by side in the daylight (incandsecent is incredibly
> deceptive,
> > covering all manner of color problems). And see if there's a
> > difference.
> >
> > Nick
> 
> 
> Nick,
> 
> I also think that the great divide between prints that fade and
> that don't fade yet is in the used papers. Like with all other
> dye inks (semi)gloss paper with a gelatine coating can be far
> more compatible with the ink than matt coated papers can be.
> About 25 years like Wide Spectrum and the Epson 10000 dye ink on
> gelatine papers seems to be possible. That is CcMmYK ink, don't
> know how long the black inks keep their density though. Don't
> think that Wilhelm paid much attention to that otherwise he
> wouldn't have rated Generations 4 with dye in the black so high.
> Months before Wilhelm got the bad results with Fotonic on matt
> Lyson papers we already had that problem, Lysonic E was no cure
> as the red was really bad in colour and fading of the cmY inks
> still happened, a short experience with Van Son UV dyes was as
> bad. The next step was Staedtler's pigment ink but that had the
> small gamut of the Roland, Mutoh etc pigment inks, not what I
> wanted. Things became a lot better with Generations 4 despite the
> fading (to some extent) of the black and the Lm. No gloss
> printing done here so far. Epson Archival pigment had some
> advantages but also some nasty effects so no reason to abandon
> Generations or buy a 9500. With the arrival of Ultrachrome and
> the clones there could be a reason to switch colour inks again.
> I've received MIS 7600 brand together with the Ultratones that
> are already in one 9000. But there are repeat orders that have to
> be done with Generations.
> 
> The test you describe here has too many flaws. John Nollendorfs
> of Lincoln inks (Wide Spectrum) has written me that humidity
> during the life of a dye print is an important factor in fading
> (and so part of the Wilhelm test) but also that he and Henry
> Wilhelm suspect that humidity at that time of printing itself has
> an influence on fade properties later on. All in all there are
> too many conditions that have to be controlled when printing dyes
> that one could say they can be nice in real test conditions but
> not reliable for normal use. That is if they have to last. If
> your experience is that the prints fade then there's evidence
> enough, especially when it is based on the quantity of prints
> that you have made.
> 
> Ernst
> 
> 
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