Digital BW, The Print

----- Original Message -----
From: "JULIANTHOMAS" <julianthomas@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Lyson SG problems


> Ernst - I'm a big fan of Lincoln inks which I use on a gelatin
paper -
> no fading yet but I've only had them for 12 months. From you
email, is
> John now saying that he doubts if dyes can be useful? Emaikls
I've had
> from him in the past suggest that dyes are still the best inks
for a
> wide colour gamut if you can accept the 15-25 year lifespan.
>
> Julian

Julian,

No he didn't say so. There is however a fluctuation in the
results that are hard to explain (same printer, same paper, same
settings) other than that conditions at the printing time must
have had an influence. His numbers have always been on the safe
side but he also has made it very clear that the paper has to be
compatible, like the paper you are using. His inks are based on
Ilford Archiva dye inks and when you check the Ilford site you
will see similar figures. Lincoln inks never had a list of papers
as long as Lyson shows on their fade result pages and the numbers
are easy to interprete, Lyson's numbers are not, the printer
types are mentioned but not whether they are CMYK or CcMmYK and
more like that.

It is more my conclusion that if you think about fading rates
like quoted for the Ultrachromes then you have to take much more
precautions with dyes like the right paper choice to get even
near those numbers. "That is if they have to last" was in my
message. So I just don't believe that dyes even desaturated ones
like in the SG ink can be printed on mat coated papers and get
near the 12 years quoted for the gloss. But with the fluctuations
in the results it could be that it works (so far) for someone and
not for someone else, it could work today and not a week later.
That makes printing dyes on mat coated paper unpredictable.

On uncoated rag paper there's experience with Iris and Epson CMYK
prints that indicate a longer life. The museum conservator I do
some work for hates them by the way as they are so delicate in
handling. Water being the greatest threat.

There have been messages here about an extra treatment for matt
coated papers that will give dye prints a much better life. The
Bockingford paper, FutureWales news that was on this list a few
months ago. I'm sceptic. If it is true it would be wonderful news
but I have my doubts.
When it was discussed I immediately printed with Epson dye ink a
piece of plain Bockingford aquarel paper that you can get in any
art supply store, it has to be said that it didn't print as bad
as I expected for a non inkjet paper. Next to that I printed a
piece of Hahnemuhle Aquarel inkjet paper. Both are in an eastside
window at an inch off the glass. The Bockingford did win like
more uncoated but well sized (PVA, gelatine)aquarel papers will
do with dye inks. Image quality is however lower than on inkjet
coated stock. At the time of that news I wrote that I was curious
how the treated inkjet coated and non inkjet Bockingford
compared, that test hasn't been done. I'm a sceptic.

Ernst