Digital BW, The Print

One of the reasons I respect John is that he is really upfront with his fade
data. Even Ilford are abit naughty in their website data. Their most
expensive printer is quoted as having the best fade results but in quad mode
only! You really need to interrogate this kind of data closely!

Julian
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ernst Dinkla" <E.Dinkla@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Lyson SG problems


>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "JULIANTHOMAS" <julianthomas@...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 10:28 AM
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Lyson SG problems
>
>
> > Ernst - I'm a big fan of Lincoln inks which I use on a gelatin
> paper -
> > no fading yet but I've only had them for 12 months. From you
> email, is
> > John now saying that he doubts if dyes can be useful? Emaikls
> I've had
> > from him in the past suggest that dyes are still the best inks
> for a
> > wide colour gamut if you can accept the 15-25 year lifespan.
> >
> > Julian
>
> Julian,
>
> No he didn't say so. There is however a fluctuation in the
> results that are hard to explain (same printer, same paper, same
> settings) other than that conditions at the printing time must
> have had an influence. His numbers have always been on the safe
> side but he also has made it very clear that the paper has to be
> compatible, like the paper you are using. His inks are based on
> Ilford Archiva dye inks and when you check the Ilford site you
> will see similar figures. Lincoln inks never had a list of papers
> as long as Lyson shows on their fade result pages and the numbers
> are easy to interprete, Lyson's numbers are not, the printer
> types are mentioned but not whether they are CMYK or CcMmYK and
> more like that.
>
> It is more my conclusion that if you think about fading rates
> like quoted for the Ultrachromes then you have to take much more
> precautions with dyes like the right paper choice to get even
> near those numbers. "That is if they have to last" was in my
> message. So I just don't believe that dyes even desaturated ones
> like in the SG ink can be printed on mat coated papers and get
> near the 12 years quoted for the gloss. But with the fluctuations
> in the results it could be that it works (so far) for someone and
> not for someone else, it could work today and not a week later.
> That makes printing dyes on mat coated paper unpredictable.
>
> On uncoated rag paper there's experience with Iris and Epson CMYK
> prints that indicate a longer life. The museum conservator I do
> some work for hates them by the way as they are so delicate in
> handling. Water being the greatest threat.
>
> There have been messages here about an extra treatment for matt
> coated papers that will give dye prints a much better life. The
> Bockingford paper, FutureWales news that was on this list a few
> months ago. I'm sceptic. If it is true it would be wonderful news
> but I have my doubts.
> When it was discussed I immediately printed with Epson dye ink a
> piece of plain Bockingford aquarel paper that you can get in any
> art supply store, it has to be said that it didn't print as bad
> as I expected for a non inkjet paper. Next to that I printed a
> piece of Hahnemuhle Aquarel inkjet paper. Both are in an eastside
> window at an inch off the glass. The Bockingford did win like
> more uncoated but well sized (PVA, gelatine)aquarel papers will
> do with dye inks. Image quality is however lower than on inkjet
> coated stock. At the time of that news I wrote that I was curious
> how the treated inkjet coated and non inkjet Bockingford
> compared, that test hasn't been done. I'm a sceptic.
>
> Ernst
>
>
>
>
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