Digital BW, The Print

Thanks Jon for the insight.  And, thanks for adding a little reality to all of this.  We are really just on a journey, and at this point, it has certainly been a success.
 
TB


Jon Cone <piezobw@...> wrote:
The one day I check in to read this list and I see my name come up!! So I
should probably respond.  By the way it is unbelievable how this group has
grown and it is fascinating to see how many variations in use there are now
in monochromatic printing. I do not think that any other niche has ever
received so much attention from such a wide variety of vendors!


re:

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:

> The reason I was curious about how warm the Septone warm inks were is that
> if there are coloring toners in it (which there would have to be if it was
> warmer than the Ultra Tone ["UT"] grays), then its longevity would probably
> be somewhat compromised.  From what I can tell, the new, pure carbon inks
> are better than the color pigments that are used to do the toning.  For
> example, I'd say the PiezoTone carbon/sepia is a toned ink.  According to
> Jon Cone's latest lightfastness table the PT Carbon Sepia fades at about 3
> times the rate of the PT warm Neutral, which probably has the least amount
> of colorant in it.



Neither PiezoTone Warm Neutral nor Carbon Sepia is a "toned ink".  They are
both made from a single 100% carbon pigment. Both use the same single
pigment. There is not two, nor is their a different pigment in either
formula. The same single carbon pigment is shaped differently to arrive at a
different color. This type of technology was unique to PiezoTones when they
were introduced. I do not know if others have adopted the technology
required to shape micro-pigments.

http://www.inkjetmall.com/store/info/1000-hours.html

The above has the rates of fade for the PiezoTones as well as EPSON
UltraChromes and both MIS-FS and Sundance Warm Neutral inks. The fade rate
for PiezoTone Warm Neutral averages less than 1% to just over 2%. The fade
rate for PiezoTone Carbon Sepia averages less than 2% to just over 2.6%. The
difference in fade between Warm Neutral and Carbon Sepia PiezoTone inks is
actually negligible because the fade rate for both is well below that of
human perception. So the different color arrived by shaping the pigment has
no effect on fade. Rather the fade rate can only be measured by an
instrument which is not a human eye!

5% is the threshold for average human perception of fade.
Incidentally, 30% is considered the endpoint in testing from both Wilhelm
and RIT, yet considered as  an unacceptable amount of fade for nearly all
b&w photographers.

In comparison to the PiezoTone inks, the MIS-FS Warm Neutral inks average
fade rates from 8.15% to just over 13.8%, and the Sundance Warm Neutral inks
average fade rates from 13.8% to just over 23.5%.

PiezoTone Selenium and Cool Neutral inks however, are both two-pigment
systems. Yet, they still average from less than 2% to 3.8% fade which is
still well below human perception of fade. The two pigments combine to make
a single perceived hue. I think that these might be what Paul considers
"toned" inks. But they are really comparable to our single pigment inks in
fade resistance.

In general, there is both a wide range in the quality of pigments used in
the various inks on the market today as well as a wide variation in the
manner in which chemists design inks. It is possible for two companies to
use single pigment systems and not have comparable inks in relation to fade.
Also, it is possible for a company to "tone" carbon with another pigment and
not have as good a fade resistance as another company which "tones" carbon.
Quality and standards vary widely in both the pigment industry and in ink
manufacturing. This accounts for the wide variations in ink performance. Few
publish patents so mostly chemists are on their own.

Paul points out that pure carbon is better than color pigments. In general,
this is correct, but when one looks at the fade rates of the EPSON
Ultrachromes which average from 3.7% to just over 16.9%, it is noticeable
that black is not the most stable component of that set. Magenta is. I
beleive that by looking at the fade rate numbers, UltraChrome was designed
to test well in industry tests which examine "yellow fade". Cyanine is
normally the most permanent pigment in a CMYK set. Yet cyanine is the
poorest performer in the UltraChromes and I have never seen that before.


UltraChrome Photo Black has a fade rate of 6.36% and Matte at 6.02%.
Piezography Museum Black has a fade rate of 5.23% and Piezography Portfolio
Black has a fade rate of 7.3%.  The preceding blacks have a slight fade that
is just over the human threshold. The blacks from the MIS-FS warm neutral
and Sundance Warm Neutral did not perform as well and were 13.8% and 15.12%
respectively.

All of the inks described in this reply have received ratings by testing
"authorities" that are considered to be over 100 years. None of the inks
reached end points of 30%. This is why I prefer side-by-side testing which
shows actual density volume decrease, so that a user can pick out an ink
which does not have any discernible fade from one which does have
considerable fade even though both have been designated as 100 year inks.
This type of information is more meaningful than "years ratings" which do
not differentiate between such wide performances and do not clearly state at
which point below 30% did the ink fade to. I believe that currently,
industry tests are leaving the user a bit in the dark because they do not
permit the manufacturer to publish certain data, and it is that certain data
which is relevant in relation to the rating. This data can and shoud be used
by consumers to understand how two inks compare.

Ink manufacturing is changing rapidly. Some companies are making inks that
"test" well and others are attempting to make inks which simply just do not
fade. The latter being much more expensive to manufacture and seemingly
unnecessary considering the leading authorities on testing permit a 30% fade
before reaching and endpoint. I am not sure who is actually looking out
anymore for the consumer.

Testers like Paul and others who have set up their own kits and even
makeshifts are slowly combining to reveal much about today's inks. Other
independents are beginning to invest in Xenon chambers which have control
over temperature and humidity and allow a full spectrum of harmful
illumination. I would never dissuade anyone from taping prints onto windows.

But it is essential and mandatory that side by side testing use the EXACT
SAME methods and software as well as paper and printer and printer settings
for each sample. That is critical in evaluating side by side performance of
competing inks.

If we compare the performance of all of the inks mentioned in this reply to
those which were available 10 years ago, no digital artist or photographer
would have believed it possible. I am not certain if everyone here realized
that the original IRIS inks were rated for only 3-6 months. A subsequent ink
set was rated 2-3 years. I eventually made two ink sets for IRIS which
received 13-15 and 21-23 years from Wilhelm and on both occasions my entire
staffs were treated to celebration dinners. Sometimes it is good to put
things in perspective to see how well we are doing. Also, it is widely
accepted at the George Eastman House that silver will outlast the paper that
vintage photos are printed on. So much work is being done there to save
works in their archives. Very little from 100 years ago and even 50 years
ago can be stabilized to the point where they can be displayed in the manner
that testing authorities assure us our inkjets can! Therefore, we are
actually closer to our goals than we realize. Or perhaps they are completely
wrong.
;-) Lets not beat ourselves up too much.

With that said, naturally I am hoping that more photographers want inks
which just simply do not fade!    :)


best  regards,


Jon Cone
Piezography inks and software


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