Digital BW, The Print

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:

> Jon,
> 
> Interesting information.  Thanks for the post.
> 
> I have noticed that different, allegedly pure carbon inks have different
> tones.  Do you have spectrophotometer C,Y,M readings for the carbon-sepia
> (e.g., 50% density patch on EEM)?


We do not publish our spectral information for the inks. It is easy enough
to find out if an ink is alleged or not by giving them to an independent
chemist at a good university who will probably do it for free.

FYI, EEM turned yellowish brown rather rapidly (at 100 hours) in our tests
and we have abandoned it as an "archival" paper. It may allow EPSON inks to
"test" better, but the paper discoloration is too gross to be considered as
a long-term material. I would appreciate hearing your view on that paper in
that regard and if you have seen that in your tests.



> It occurs to me that the newest pigments are getting to the point where
> someone like you ought to test your PT inkset against a silver print.  Have
> you done this yet?


I have been doing some research into historical mediums lately and part of
that led me to spend time in the archives at the George Eastman House in
Rochester (which I think are very extensive with many examples of extremely
high quality). So I have been looking at a great deal of vintage photography
that is "supposed" to last for many, many generations. The reality is that
the substrates are sensitive to the environment. It is becoming more and
more apparent as I dig, that the proverbial silver print that is supposed to
last centuries may be a theory. I mean that in regards to being exposed to
light and the elements. I am not a archivist, though I have been conversing
with many about this, but it appears that much of the conventional silver
prints are on substrates which act like sponges. Those examples of silver
prints in which the silver has not faded or reacted have essentially been
kept out of the light and out of the air and in dark, dry contact with
stable cotton paper (and usually inadvertently so.)

Submitting silver prints to accelerated light tests usually cracks their
surfaces anyway. 

I have been able to see, by looking at vintage silver and vintage
carbo-process prints, that the carbo-process appears to be a more fade
resistant medium. Yes - you read that correct. I have seen a many faded
silver prints.

I am thinking more and more that we are going to have a very long-lived
medium, this quad phenomena. I also think that many of these coatings may
come back to bite us in the a**. Too many options out there. Good papers
with poor coatings. That is where we should be putting our attention.
Coatings.

This may be where my first quad system had a better edge than the EPSON quad
systems. My IRIS quad inks were able to be printed on uncoated acid-free,
printmaking paper and my software generated enough optical density that they
were as black as today's coated inkjet examples. The continuous-drop hertz
inkjet technology did not require coatings to build OD. With an EPSON the
total ink needs to be kept down to 130%+-. With my earlier quad process I
could approach as much as 400% total inks without bleed. My early quad and
DigitalPlatinum IRIS prints may outlast because of the more purer paper
substrate. The inks may not take as much exposure to light as the PTs, but
the paper is inherently more stable and is not as hydroscopic as today's
coated papers. 

I will try and leave a note for some future archivist or a visitor to an
archive to get me a message in the after life! ;)



> I assume that the toned silver print still has the edge on lightfastness,
> but the paper base, as you note, is the weak link for that technology.  My
> reading indicates that even pure cellulose will be attacked by the
> atmosphere and start an acidic, snowballing cascade of byproducts.  As such,
> for the best longevity, buffering is needed.  Yet, with the silver print wet
> processing, no buffer can be in the paper (as far as I know -- after all, we
> use an acid stop bath).  The inkjet papers, on the other hand, can and
> usually do have buffering.
> 
> Thus, in addition to the light-fastness testing, it would be most
> interesting to see some comparative accelerated aging testing, where they
> usually cook the paper in a dark, high-humidity atmosphere.  (Of course, I
> think there is even less agreement on the accuracy of these tests than of
> the fade tests.)
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
> ___________________________________
> 


Paul, the more I learn about vintage processes...
...the more I understand that they are not as stable as we were led to
believe.

On the other hand, this pressure on digital photographers and artists to be
"as permanent as" traditional medium has forced us to make materials which
may be more permanent than traditional mediums. I hope that I am not
sounding like we are doing too much. I think that we are setting our goals,
as we should, not at the same level as that which preceded us, but above it.

All good stuff.


by the way I saw one of the few known perfect examples of a preserved
albumen print by Edward Muybridge of all people and it is nothing like what
I had associated with the medium - it looks more like a heavily selenium
toned silver print on bright white paper - curiously it was an enormous
western landscape rather than one of his motion studies - every albumen
print I have ever seen has had a creamy white to yellowish white albumen
paper surface with purple toning which appears more like staining - that is,
the purple appeared to be the stain rather than the more neutral parts of
these prints - the reality is the purple tone had a tendency to fade towards
neutral while the albumen coated paper turned creamy and yellow with
exposure to light

So few traditional silver prints also retain their original state. Yet we
put enormous pressure on our medium. Now that we know we can, I suppose we
should try and be more fade resistant than our predecessors.


Jon Cone
Piezography inks and software