"training courses " caught my eye in your recent post regarding your recent
work on the C-82 for non-photographers.
Paul, I have been lurking on this list for about 6 months and have yet to
drum up the courage to begin B&W printing on either my 2200 or "sitting
idle" 2000P although you so thoughtfully advised me re: your curves for the
latter machine a few months ago. Also, made the trip to Solvang to view
your most impressive show in the gallery there. The point here???? Do you
teach any workshops on B&W printing? Do you teach on an individual basis?
I would be most eager to be tutored and willing to travel to Solvang or
elsewhere for the privilege. Also willing to chuck my 2000P for a 1280 or
whatever printer you think would be most appropriate.
Most appreciative of your response.
Barbara Woolner
----- Original Message -----
From: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 2:37 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] Digest Number 1815
Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
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------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are 22 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Epson C82 affordable "Carbon on Cotton"
From: Jerry in Houston <glewis4457@...>
2. margin problems
From: "gdicrocco" <gdicrocco@...>
3. Image Processors -- Silverfast HDR
From: sandersm@...
4. Re: Epson 1200
From: "Stephen Kobrin" <skobrin@...>
5. Gray Balancer and Mac OS9.2
From: "dave08g" <dave08g@...>
6. Re: margin problems
From: Steve Kale <stevekale@...>
7. Re: margin problems
From: "gdicrocco" <gdicrocco@...>
8. printer problems
From: "Stephen Kobrin" <skobrin@...>
9. Re: Best Entry-level Image Processor?
From: "Jeff Randall" <jrandall@...>
10. Re: Best Entry-level Image Processor?
From: "Mark Hahn" <markhahn2000@...>
11. Epson install problem after ImagePrint
From: "Ken Carney" <kcarney1@...>
12. Success! Linux, Lyson, and QTR2
From: Allan Metts <ametts2@...>
13. Re: margin problems
From: Steve Kale <stevekale@...>
14. Re: Re: New CFS 1160 UT question (pre-vacuumed carts?)...
From: "Barry Kelsall" <bktimes@...>
15. Re: Epson install problem after ImagePrint
From: Steve Kale <stevekale@...>
16. RE: Epson C82 affordable "Carbon on Cotton"
From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...>
17. RE: Re: Best Entry-level Image Processor?
From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...>
18. Epson colour -> MIS Quadtone: cleaning steps?
From: gendem <gendem@...>
19. Re: Best Entry-level Image Processor?
From: "Jason Holzheimer" <jasonholzheimer@...>
20. Re: QTR: hitch in the greyscale ramp for EEM_2200-cool?
From: Peter Miles <P.Miles@...>
21. Re: Success! Linux, Lyson, and QTR2
From: Eric Maquiling <eric@...>
22. Re: Epson install problem after ImagePrint
From: "Bob Frost" <bobfrost@...>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 13:43:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jerry in Houston <glewis4457@...>
Subject: Re: Epson C82 affordable "Carbon on Cotton"
I looked in the Epson site and they list a C-84 and it is in the right price
range (@$79 USD) but has a much higher claimed resolution.... or is the C-82
yet to be released.
I have a C-80... what is the difference between my C-82 and the C-82?
Jerry in Houston
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 20:47:19 -0000
From: "gdicrocco" <gdicrocco@...>
Subject: margin problems
My Epson 2200 does not like to center the image on a page. I am generally
printing
with the Epson 2200 Standard profile (tried both USB and Firewire), US
Letter setting.
I set up my page to center the image. In my latest test, I used Ilford
Smooth Pearl on
the Semi-gloss setting. Generally, the long side of the image is centered,
but the
short sides are usually off by a half inch or so. I have made prints in the
past that
were centered, but it seems to be a random act of good luck. I load my paper
in the
feeder, always the same, butted up to the right.
Thanks for your help.
Glen DiCrocco
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 17:05:38 EDT
From: sandersm@...
Subject: Image Processors -- Silverfast HDR
Is anyone on the list using Silverfast HDR? What do you all think about
it?
It shipped along with Silverfast Ai when I got my Microtek 120tf scanner,
but I've never bothered to install it. Is Silverfast HDR a good
alternative
to PS Elements?
BTW, I just installed Roy Harrington's QTR, and am thrilled with the results
it is giving me. Roy was incredibly helpful, responding to my emails
promptly when I ran into trouble (due entirely to my own stupidity in
downloading an
out-of-date version of QTR). Great tool, generously offered -- thanks
again,
Roy.
Sanders McNew
www.mcnew.net
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:41:49 -0000
From: "Stephen Kobrin" <skobrin@...>
Subject: Re: Epson 1200
Rick,
I have used a 1200 for several years and only have problems with
either regular paper stock I use for nozzle checks or very heavy
paper. For the former, it takes several sheets in the tray to get it
to feed correctly. The few times I have used very heavy stock, I
have had to help the paper along by hand. However, for EAM an papers
of like weight, the auto-feed seems to work well with one sheet in
the tray.
Steve
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Alan Zinn
<AZinn@n...> wrote:
> At 03:56 PM 10/19/03 +0000, you wrote:
> >I am using an Epson 1200 and am having great difficulty with the
> >paper feeder. I have tried unsucessfully using light weight paper
as
> >well as heavier stock. And of course i have changed the position
of
> >the flip arm on the printer to accomodate the different weights. I
> >even have a problem with feeding ordinary injet paper. Any
> >suggestions short of pushing in the paper by hand (which is what I
am
> >doing now with minor sucess) would be appreciated.
> >
> >Thanks
> >Rick Zeidman
> >rzeidman@m...
>
> Rick,
>
> I have the same problem with my 1200. It is frustrating because it
seems
> intermittent. After the initial feed begins it doesn't catch in the
last
> row of rollers. I examined them with a flashlight and they are
clean and
> dry. I have less problems when the paper tray is full. I wonder if
there is
> a fine paper thickness adjustment? It looks to me that the paper
thickness
> lever only moves the location of the print head rather than the
> roller/paper distance.
>
> AZ
>
> Build a Lookaround!
> The Lookaround Book, 2nd ed.
> NOW SHIPPING
> http://www.panoramacamera.us
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:14:10 -0000
From: "dave08g" <dave08g@...>
Subject: Gray Balancer and Mac OS9.2
I recently downloaded the gray balancer onto my Mac. I am trying to
eliminate the ugly green cast that I get from midtones to highlights
when the print (from 2200) is viewed in window light. I realize that
the core of the problem is metamerism and I am willing to live with a
magenta/selenium cast under indoor lighting in order to reduce the
green tone described above.
I am able to get a reasonably decent test print (printed from gray
balancer) but when I try to print an image from photoshop, the image
is worse than before. I assume that I have not set up PS properly. I
have tried a variety of combinations but nothing seems to work so far.
Does anyone have any suggestions in terms of color management,
profiles, modes, etc that wpould help to make a PS print the same
tonally as the Gray Balancer test print?
thank
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 23:23:13 +0100
From: Steve Kale <stevekale@...>
Subject: Re: margin problems
Try using the No Margins driver \ufffd I find that it then centres perfectly
Cheers
Steve
From: "gdicrocco" <gdicrocco@...>
Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 20:47:19 -0000
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] margin problems
My Epson 2200 does not like to center the image on a page. I am generally
printing
with the Epson 2200 Standard profile (tried both USB and Firewire), US
Letter setting.
I set up my page to center the image. In my latest test, I used Ilford
Smooth Pearl on
the Semi-gloss setting. Generally, the long side of the image is centered,
but the
short sides are usually off by a half inch or so. I have made prints in the
past that
were centered, but it seems to be a random act of good luck. I load my paper
in the
feeder, always the same, butted up to the right.
Thanks for your help.
Glen DiCrocco
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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8323&partid=4052765>
Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
Please follow these basic guidelines:
- Include your full name with your message.
- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
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<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 23:12:42 -0000
From: "gdicrocco" <gdicrocco@...>
Subject: Re: margin problems
Steve, thanks. Are you talking about the Minimize Margins driver, or Border=
less?
Where is the "No Margins" driver?
glen
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale <stevekale@=
b...>
wrote:
> Try using the No Margins driver \ufffd I find that it then centres perfectly
>
> Cheers
>
> Steve
>
>
> From: "gdicrocco" <gdicrocco@e...>
> Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 20:47:19 -0000
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] margin problems
>
> My Epson 2200 does not like to center the image on a page. I am generally=
> printing
> with the Epson 2200 Standard profile (tried both USB and Firewire), US
> Letter setting.
>
> I set up my page to center the image. In my latest test, I used Ilford
> Smooth Pearl on
> the Semi-gloss setting. Generally, the long side of the image is centered=
,
> but the
> short sides are usually off by a half inch or so. I have made prints in t=
he
> past that
> were centered, but it seems to be a random act of good luck. I load my pa=
per
> in the
> feeder, always the same, butted up to the right.
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Glen
>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 8
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 23:33:36 -0000
From: "Stephen Kobrin" <skobrin@...>
Subject: printer problems
When I run a nozzle check on my 1200 I often get a shuddering sound
after the check and then subsequent checks are terrible, even if the
intial check was ok. A few cleaning cycles clears it up. I have not
yet heard the sound during actual printing. I have cleaned and
lubricated the bar the heads travel on. I have had the printer for a
few years, but am happy with it and would like to fix the problem.
Any thoughts would be much appreciated. Again, it the "shuddering"
sound only seems to appear during nozzle checks and cleaning cycles.
(Only Click and Clack can accurately reproduce sounds.)
Steve
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:26:16 -0000
From: "Jeff Randall" <jrandall@...>
Subject: Re: Best Entry-level Image Processor?
Picture Window/$50 and Picture Window Pro/$90 (PC only)
Very powerful...Very intuitative especially for an entry level
person who has not been contaminated by the Adobe/etal workflow.
Digital Light and Color
www.dl-c.com
Jonathan Sachs (the developer) actually interacts with his customers
and answers questions online -- Adobe/etal??
Jeff Randall
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Since it looks like we'll have a $69 printer that can do archival
carbon
> printing soon without the need for Photoshop, the next question
might be
> what image processing software I should recommend to non-expert
> photographers without big budgets.
>
> It seems to me that for the genealogists and scrapbook fans, basic
tools in
> an easy-to-use format and a price under $100 is needed. Some of
the
> programs that came up in my initial search were Ulead PhotoImpact
8, Digital
> Image Pro, and, of course, Adobe's Elements. (I must admit that I
have a
> preference to see some company other than M$ or Adobe get more
market share
> here.)
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 01:02:22 -0000
From: "Mark Hahn" <markhahn2000@...>
Subject: Re: Best Entry-level Image Processor?
GIMP is free, powerful and not *that* hard to learn... I think that
all the programs are going to be hard to use if someone doesn't what
to think about what they are doing anyway... GIMP also has a big user
base and available help if you ask.
It's probably hardest to use if you are a PhotoShop user and looking
in all the *right places* and not finding things;)
mark
...
> > It seems to me that for the genealogists and scrapbook fans,
basic
> tools in
> > an easy-to-use format and a price under $100 is needed. Some of
> the
> > programs that came up in my initial search were Ulead PhotoImpact
> 8, Digital
> > Image Pro, and, of course, Adobe's Elements. (I must admit that
I
> have a
> > preference to see some company other than M$ or Adobe get more
> market share
> > here.)
> >
> > Any thoughts?
...
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 11
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 20:02:34 -0500
From: "Ken Carney" <kcarney1@...>
Subject: Epson install problem after ImagePrint
Would greatly appreciate any advice. I downloaded the ImagePrint demo,
liked it, thought I would get it and a new 2200. However...after installing
the demo, my beloved 1270 will only print in one tone with the Epson
software (the typical red cast), no matter whether the image sent to it is
cold tone, warm tone or what. I uninstalled the ImagePrint demo (not easy
to do), but still the same problem with the 1270. So I uninstalled the 1270
as a printer and the Epson software. I tried to reinstall (the Epson XP
driver with both USB and parallel), but the Epson software will not
recognize the printer as installed, though it is installed. It will print
with the native XP drivers, but the Epson print software will get to
"installing your printer" and then hang. Thanks for any advice on this
exotic question. It's time to upgrade, but I would like to keep the 1270.
Regards,
--Ken Carney
www.kencarney.com
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 12
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:05:14 -0400
From: Allan Metts <ametts2@...>
Subject: Success! Linux, Lyson, and QTR2
For the first time after two years of on-again/off-again dabble-ing, I can
finally print! I bought a set of Lyson QuadBlack inks way back then, and
never had any success in getting a printed image that resembled anything
close to what was on my screen. That was Windows.
So for the past few weeks I've been trying to pull this off in Linux with
Roy's QuadToneRIP package (this is very much a spare-time hobby for
me). And as of tonight, I'm getting prints that translate very well from
screen to paper! I manipulate the image in GIMP, and print it using qtcups.
In fact, I may have achieved the world's cheapest system for QuadTone
printing -- other than inks and paper, all I've paid for is my film scanner
and a $100 printer from eBay. GIMP, Linux, and QTR2 are all free -- I
don't even own a PhotoShop license....
My method for getting all of this working ended up to be quite
unscientific. I couldn't ever get Roy's CMYK Calibration document to print
correctly in Linux, and I certainly don't own a densitometer or any other
fancy calibration gear.
So I resorted to trial and error. I put a 21-Step image on the screen, and
kept mucking around until my prints looked like the 21-Step.
I ended up with some rather wacky settings -- and I certainly confess
ignorance, here. So if any of you have any insights as to what I'm doing
to myself behind the scenes, please let me know:
--*-- I had to do some extreme boosting on the Yellow channel, because
anything under 10% was pure white on my prints. I cut the stated
percent-of-black all the way down to 1%, and boosted the Yellow channel to
1.2 in qtcups. Magenta went down to 10% of black, and Cyan was 44%. I
kept all of the other QuadTone RIP settings at their default values.
--*-- In qtcups, I brought gamma all the way down to 0.7, and increased
saturation to 1.15.
Wacky or not, what I see in GIMP is pretty much what I see on paper -- so
I'm quite happy. I can finally start looking at my work on something other
than a contact sheet!
Thanks in advance for any suggestions or advice...
Allan
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 13
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 03:13:48 +0100
From: Steve Kale <stevekale@...>
Subject: Re: margin problems
Glen
When you install the driver make sure you install \ufffdAll\ufffd rather than just
\ufffdStandard\ufffd. I am using the Epson 2100 driver so there may be slight word
differences but if I do this I can select Stylus Photo 2100(No Margins) as
my printer (vs Epson Stylus 2100 \ufffd the standard one \ufffd or Epson Stylus
2100(Maximum) etc ). I suspect from what you have written below that the
equivalent for you is Borderless. Hope this helps.
:-)
From: "gdicrocco" <gdicrocco@...>
Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 23:12:42 -0000
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] margin problems
Steve, thanks. Are you talking about the Minimize Margins driver, or Border=
less?
Where is the "No Margins" driver?
glen
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale <stevekale@=
b...>
wrote:
> Try using the No Margins driver \ufffd I find that it then centres perfectly
>
> Cheers
>
> Steve
>
>
> From: "gdicrocco" <gdicrocco@e...>
> Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 20:47:19 -0000
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] margin problems
>
> My Epson 2200 does not like to center the image on a page. I am generally=
> printing
> with the Epson 2200 Standard profile (tried both USB and Firewire), US
> Letter setting.
>
> I set up my page to center the image. In my latest test, I used Ilford
> Smooth Pearl on
> the Semi-gloss setting. Generally, the long side of the image is centered=
,
> but the
> short sides are usually off by a half inch or so. I have made prints in t=
he
> past that
> were centered, but it seems to be a random act of good luck. I load my pa=
per
> in the
> feeder, always the same, butted up to the right.
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Glen
>
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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Please follow these basic guidelines:
- Include your full name with your message.
- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
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<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 14
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 18:34:32 -0700
From: "Barry Kelsall" <bktimes@...>
Subject: Re: Re: New CFS 1160 UT question (pre-vacuumed carts?)...
Bob,
All of the carts (and there are several) I have filled with the bottom-fill
method have been problem-free (and that includes clog-free). I cannot say
the same for the vaccuum method. I am convinced. Perhaps the good ink I use
from MIS is relatively grotless. You are free to go your own way, I am just
trying to help by reporting my experience, which is perhaps above average
due to the battery of printers I use. -BK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Frost" <bobfrost@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 1:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: New CFS 1160 UT question (pre-vacuumed
carts?)...
> Barry,
>
> If you fill cartridges from the bottom, through the exit hole, surely all
> the grot in the ink is going to end up on the wrong side of the filter in
> the cartridge, and you are then going to rely solely on the very small
> filter in the print head to stop that grot from clogging your nozzles? I'm
> just beginning to experiment with refilling cartridges (1290 and 2100) and
> although I can see some advantages of filling from the bottom, the filter
> problem puts me off.
>
> Bob Frost.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Barry Kelsall" <bktimes@...>
>
> > I am now a convert to the bottom-fill method, in which
> > you can measure the amount of ink that goes in the cart precisely. -BK
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 15
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 03:19:15 +0100
From: Steve Kale <stevekale@...>
Subject: Re: Epson install problem after ImagePrint
FYI I would not jump straight into purchasing IP at $495. I have found
minimal added image quality with the 2100/2200 and good colour profiles for
colour work and QTR (Mac only) is in my opinion better for B&W. Get the
2200 and test again...2c
From: "Ken Carney" <kcarney1@...>
Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 20:02:34 -0500
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Digital BW] Epson install problem after ImagePrint
Would greatly appreciate any advice. I downloaded the ImagePrint demo,
liked it, thought I would get it and a new 2200. However...after installing
the demo, my beloved 1270 will only print in one tone with the Epson
software (the typical red cast), no matter whether the image sent to it is
cold tone, warm tone or what. I uninstalled the ImagePrint demo (not easy
to do), but still the same problem with the 1270. So I uninstalled the 1270
as a printer and the Epson software. I tried to reinstall (the Epson XP
driver with both USB and parallel), but the Epson software will not
recognize the printer as installed, though it is installed. It will print
with the native XP drivers, but the Epson print software will get to
"installing your printer" and then hang. Thanks for any advice on this
exotic question. It's time to upgrade, but I would like to keep the 1270.
Regards,
--Ken Carney
www.kencarney.com
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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8323&partid=4052765>
Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
Please follow these basic guidelines:
- Include your full name with your message.
- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
- Complete your Yahoo profile.
- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 16
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 19:30:19 -0700
From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...>
Subject: RE: Epson C82 affordable "Carbon on Cotton"
>I looked in the Epson site and they list a C-84 and it is in the right
>price range (@$79 USD) but has a much higher claimed resolution....
>or is the C-82 yet to be released.
I think the C82 is an older model. MIS and Amazon have them, but I'm not
sure how many are still out there. The C84 will be the next one,
presumably, but for now there are no 3rd party carts available. MIS thinks
they use the same inks, but different chips.
The higher resolution of the C84 is probably visible with color inks on
RC/glossy paper, but with B&W on matte, I think a loupe would be required to
see the difference. I was, frankly, astounded at how good the C82 is at
2880 (with High Speed off -- it does make a difference with this printer)
and when the same gray ink (MIS UT Light cyan) is in all three color carts.
The weaknesses I've found so far with the C82 are, first, the dmax, and
second, a possible paper handling glitch.
While the dmax of the C82 doesn't match that of the 1280, the C82 with
PhotoRag hits 1.57 with Eboni black, which is not too bad for cotton.
Recall that the new cotton papers from Epson and Moab were hitting 1.6 -
1.62 with the 1280 and Epson driver. I suspect those papers don't do much
better than the C82 when the Piezo driver is used with, for example, an
1160. The Piezo driver, like the C82, under-prints the black ink with the
"color" inks. It's a trade-off between smoothness and dmax. With EEM the
dmax is 1.55, same with the new Permajet (cotton) ISC (there will be a new
name when released in January). Some cotton papers are not good, however.
PremierArt was down at 1.46.
Of course, some will opt to use Gen 4 Enhance K or some other dye/pigment
hybrid to overcome this issue. I'm not sure what the ratio is between Piezo
"Museum" K (pure pigment like Eboni) and the hybrid blacks Cone sells, but
many clearly go for the deeper black ink even if it fades and warms more.
The paper handling issue I've found with the C82 is that the head will
sometimes hit the corners of papers that curl. Usually, I've just seen a
black mark on the bottom 1/8" edge of the paper, but on one piece it caught
the paper and moved it slightly, causing a dual/ghost image at the end of
the page.
The "problem" relates to the fact that the C82 head is set "vertically."
That is, for example, when you look at the parking pad the long axis/side is
perpendicular to the movement of the head. When looking at a purge pattern
being printed, the color bars are being printed one after the other; they
are like stair-steps. The yellow ink is the last one to be laid down and is
being printed about 1/2 to 3/4 inch away from the first set of rollers --
the main rollers/platen on most printers, I believe. So, the yellow is
still being printed when the bottom of the paper is past/outside this first
set of rollers. However, there is a second set of rollers, very near the
paper exit, that keeps the paper moving. The system seems to work very well
most of the time. Unfortunately, if a corner is turned up for some reason,
it might get hit by the head while the yellow ink is still being printed.
This vertical head arrangement may have some distinct benefits, of course.
I thought my old 1160 was a fine quad, but the dither and smoothness on this
cheap C82 is way ahead of it. I suspect the vertical placement makes
alignment (and cheap assembly) much less of an issue, because I'd guess it
is mostly machined in the head when it's made -- by a very accurate machine.
The carts for the C82 (and C84) are still a bit of an open issue. It
appears MIS has some new ones for the C82 that might make re-filling
extremely easy, avoiding the foam problems. (Having only one "color" ink
also makes the process rather easy for both re-fillers and MIS.) It may be
that with a re-setter, a single set of carts will last a very long time.
The current carts are, apparently, not easy to re-fill. I'm not certain
when the C84 carts will be ready.
The independent color carts also appear to be all the same. This could be
very interesting. The yellow pumps in less ink than the others. So, if I'm
lucky, a toner might be able to be mixed that, for example, makes a neutral
print when in the magenta spot and medium-warm print in the yellow slot.
Similarly for a sepia toner. (Having one [already in inventory] gray ink in
all carts -- which just happen to be the same -- is also a nice little
inventory and cost benefit to MIS, which hopefully will be passed on the
users.)
I must say that I am beginning to like the Epson chips. They keep track of
how full the carts are as they are being pulled in and out for different
effects, including color v. B&W. As long as the 3rd-party chip engineers
can keep Epson's lead time down to a few months, the chips might be a net
benefit here.
(I have no idea what the differences are between the C-80 and C-84, but I'd
guess the model changes all have different chips.)
>1. Is this going to be offered by MIS as a kit or will I have to buy
>the components separately and prepare them myself?
I don't know, but the aim is to make something that is so simple that a
non-technical novice can do it all.
I'll be talking with a scrapbook store owner tomorrow about, among other
things, the expertise level to expect in that market. From what I have
seen, I suspect there is a market for a turn-key system, but that may be
left to the local store owners. I have no idea what MIS has in mind.
I also see a demand for training courses for the non-photographers. I've
already been invited to speak at a genealogy society and ran out of cards
from older folks who wanted help scanning and printing their fading old B&W
photos.
>2. Will this work with other papers as well (i.e. Epson Heavyweight
>Matte)?
I suppose any paper will work. The printer doesn't seem to have any trouble
with copier paper, EEM, or the 300-weight/thick paper I was trying. It just
looks like curl on the bottom corners could be an issue.
Keep in mind that this is a $69 machine. I don't recommend people throw
their 1280s away, but there are a lot of people who don't want to put out
that kind of cash. The goal here is to lower the financial and expertise
barrier to outstanding, archival B&W printing by getting a cheap printer,
"no-workflow" inkset, and non-Photoshop image editor competitive with the
best systems -- and the C82 has made me believe more than ever that this can
be done.
Frankly, from what I've seen this last week, and since I use the 7500 with
UT inks for display prints, I might be very happy with the C82 and no 1280.
The "might" isn't a "would" mostly because I have not tested the toning
approaches yet. That happens next week (since I ran out of carts last
week). The only real question here is whether the plug-in toner cart
approach will work or whether we need to put the neutral/selenium ink (&
maybe others later) in all 3 spots.
Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com
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Message: 17
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 19:30:19 -0700
From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...>
Subject: RE: Re: Best Entry-level Image Processor?
Thank you all for the ideas.
Paul
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Message: 18
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 19:24:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: gendem <gendem@...>
Subject: Epson colour -> MIS Quadtone: cleaning steps?
Hi All
I expect that my MIS inks will be delivered this week,
and I'm wondering...is there anything I have to do
before I can use them? Some kind of cleaning thing
before I plop in the new cartridge? A link to a web
page, maybe on the circular MIS page?
All tips welcome...assuming I can get the 1280 cart to
work in my 900 ;)
...Mike
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
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Message: 19
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 02:45:59 -0000
From: "Jason Holzheimer" <jasonholzheimer@...>
Subject: Re: Best Entry-level Image Processor?
Have been a long time lurker. Just wanted to suggest that, although
it's more expensive then the previously suggested options, Picture
Window Pro might strike the perfect balence between inexpensive and
powerful (Full support for 48-bit color/16-bit B&W files):
Picture Window Pro -- $89.95 (30-day trial version free download)
Picture Window -- $49.95
Plus there's a very helpful online introduction at:
http://www.normankoren.com/PWP_intro.html
Just my 2 cents,
Jason.
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Message: 20
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:04:22 +1300
From: Peter Miles <P.Miles@...>
Subject: Re: QTR: hitch in the greyscale ramp for EEM_2200-cool?
Roy Harrington Wrote
Message: 14
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:03:30 -0000
<major snip>
.... If you interested in the gory details of this I'd be glad to share it
offline.
Roy
<end snip>
Hi Roy and David
I have been following your thread with a lot of interest.
I would like you to continue this discussion on the Digital B&W list.
I'm just starting wrapping my head around getting the best out of roy's QTR
and find your discussion very useful.
Much thanks
Peter Miles
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Message: 21
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:51:46 -0700
From: Eric Maquiling <eric@...>
Subject: Re: Success! Linux, Lyson, and QTR2
On 10/19 21:05, Allan Metts wrote:
>
>
> Wacky or not, what I see in GIMP is pretty much what I see on paper -- so
> I'm quite happy. I can finally start looking at my work on something
other
> than a contact sheet!
Very cool!
When do I see the How-To at www.tldp.org? :)
--
Eric
Eric's PAW page: <http://www.maquiling.org/paw>
PAW main page: <http://www.jeffery-nola.com/links.html>
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Message: 22
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:07:55 +0100
From: "Bob Frost" <bobfrost@...>
Subject: Re: Epson install problem after ImagePrint
Ken,
As you may have seen, I'm also having trouble with IP and my 2100. In all
the reading, rebooting, and reinstalling that I've done, I have read that IP
disables your existing Epson driver by various means to avoid conflict with
its own driver. When uninstalling it, using its own uninstaller since it
doesn't use the normal windows Uninstaller for some reason, it seems to
leave a new printer port that it sets up - called
C:\programfiles\iP\spool\printers\Epson 2200. You can delete this by going
to Settings/Printers/yourprinter(1270)/Properties/Ports and checking that
this new port is not there after uninstallation. If it is, delete it in that
menu, and recheck the box opposite your normal port for the 1270. IP's
uninstaller may also leave the printer installed; go to Settings/Printers
and manually delete it if necessary. On at least one occasions it said it
couldn't uninstall all the files, and I had to go to Program Files\IP and
delete the folders manually. I haven't yet looked to see what it might be
leaving in the Registry!
Bob Frost
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Carney" <kcarney1@...>
> Would greatly appreciate any advice. I downloaded the ImagePrint demo,
> liked it, thought I would get it and a new 2200. However...after
installing
> the demo, my beloved 1270 will only print in one tone with the Epson
> software (the typical red cast), no matter whether the image sent to it is
> cold tone, warm tone or what. I uninstalled the ImagePrint demo (not easy
> to do), but still the same problem with the 1270. So I uninstalled the
1270
> as a printer and the Epson software. I tried to reinstall (the Epson XP
> driver with both USB and parallel), but the Epson software will not
> recognize the printer as installed, though it is installed. It will print
> with the native XP drivers, but the Epson print software will get to
> "installing your printer" and then hang. Thanks for any advice on this
> exotic question. It's time to upgrade, but I would like to keep the 1270.
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Re: [Digital BW] Digest Number 1815
2003-10-20 by bfwoolner