Digital BW, The Print

Paul:

Thanks for doing, and sharing, your work on doing archival B&W with
reasonable expense and hassle. 

What are your current thoughts on using MIS-UT with C82/C84 vs. 1280? 

How about newer Epson models like 960 and the mysterious PX-G900?
Reason to delay a purchase decision?

Finally, I'd love to hear your thoughts about what to recommend for
archival *color* printing, if you do any of that.

I'm a rank beginner (Canon G3 bought yesterday; no printer) who, like
many folks, I suspect, has followed with great interest your quest for
'affordable "Carbon on Cotton"'. I'm willing and able to pay for a
1280 but also able to appreciate smaller price (and size) of C82/C84.
Print size difference is not crucial for me (8.5x11 in. fine for
awhile). I'm willing to have two photo printers (color, B&W) if need
be.

THANKS, AGAIN, FOR SHARING YOUR WORK.
Sean Streiff

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> >I looked in the Epson site and they list a C-84 and it is in the
right
> >price range (@$79 USD) but has a much higher claimed resolution....
> >or is the C-82 yet to be released.
> 
> I think the C82 is an older model.  MIS and Amazon have them, but
I'm not
> sure how many are still out there.  The C84 will be the next one,
> presumably, but for now there are no 3rd party carts available. MIS
thinks
> they use the same inks, but different chips.
> 
> The higher resolution of the C84 is probably visible with color
inks on
> RC/glossy paper, but with B&W on matte, I think a loupe would be
required to
> see the difference.  I was, frankly, astounded at how good the C82
is at
> 2880 (with High Speed off -- it does make a difference with this
printer)
> and when the same gray ink (MIS UT Light cyan) is in all three color
carts.
> 
> The weaknesses I've found so far with the C82 are, first, the dmax,
and
> second, a possible paper handling glitch.
> 
> While the dmax of the C82 doesn't match that of the 1280, the C82
with
> PhotoRag hits 1.57 with Eboni black, which is not too bad for
cotton.
> Recall that the new cotton papers from Epson and Moab were hitting
1.6 -
> 1.62 with the 1280 and Epson driver.  I suspect those papers don't
do much
> better than the C82 when the Piezo driver is used with, for
example, an
> 1160.  The Piezo driver, like the C82, under-prints the black ink
with the
> "color" inks.  It's a trade-off between smoothness and dmax.  With
EEM the
> dmax is 1.55, same with the new Permajet (cotton) ISC (there will be
a new
> name when released in January).  Some cotton papers are not good,
however.
> PremierArt was down at 1.46.

[snip]

> I thought my old 1160 was a fine quad, but the dither and smoothness
on this
> cheap C82 is way ahead of it.  I suspect the vertical placement
makes
> alignment (and cheap assembly) much less of an issue, because I'd
guess it
> is mostly machined in the head when it's made -- by a very accurate
machine.
> 
> The carts for the C82 (and C84) are still a bit of an open issue. 
It
> appears MIS has some new ones for the C82 that might make re-filling
> extremely easy, avoiding the foam problems.  (Having only one
"color" ink
> also makes the process rather easy for both re-fillers and MIS.)  It
may be
> that with a re-setter, a single set of carts will last a very long
time.
> The current carts are, apparently, not easy to re-fill.  I'm not
certain
> when the C84 carts will be ready.
> 
> The independent color carts also appear to be all the same.  This
could be
> very interesting.  The yellow pumps in less ink than the others. 
So, if I'm
> lucky, a toner might be able to be mixed that, for example, makes a
neutral
> print when in the magenta spot and medium-warm print in the yellow
slot.
> Similarly for a sepia toner.  (Having one [already in inventory]
gray ink in
> all carts -- which just happen to be the same -- is also a nice
little
> inventory and cost benefit to MIS, which hopefully will be passed
on the
> users.)

[snip]

> Keep in mind that this is a $69 machine.  I don't recommend people
throw
> their 1280s away, but there are a lot of people who don't want to
put out
> that kind of cash.  The goal here is to lower the financial and
expertise
> barrier to outstanding, archival B&W printing by getting a cheap
printer,
> "no-workflow" inkset, and non-Photoshop image editor competitive
with the
> best systems -- and the C82 has made me believe more than ever that
this can
> be done.
> 
> Frankly, from what I've seen this last week, and since I use the
7500 with
> UT inks for display prints, I might be very happy with the C82 and
no 1280.
> The "might" isn't a "would" mostly because I have not tested the
toning
> approaches yet.  That happens next week (since I ran out of carts
last
> week).  The only real question here is whether the plug-in toner
cart
> approach will work or whether we need to put the neutral/selenium
ink (&
> maybe others later) in all 3 spots.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com