Digital BW, The Print

I looked in the Epson site and they list a C-84 and it is in the right price range (@$79 USD) but has a much higher claimed resolution.... or is the C-82 yet to be released.
 
I have a C-80... what is the difference between my C-82 and the C-82?
 
Jerry in Houston


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>I looked in the Epson site and they list a C-84 and it is in the right
>price range (@$79 USD) but has a much higher claimed resolution....
>or is the C-82 yet to be released.

I think the C82 is an older model.  MIS and Amazon have them, but I'm not
sure how many are still out there.  The C84 will be the next one,
presumably, but for now there are no 3rd party carts available. MIS thinks
they use the same inks, but different chips.

The higher resolution of the C84 is probably visible with color inks on
RC/glossy paper, but with B&W on matte, I think a loupe would be required to
see the difference.  I was, frankly, astounded at how good the C82 is at
2880 (with High Speed off -- it does make a difference with this printer)
and when the same gray ink (MIS UT Light cyan) is in all three color carts.

The weaknesses I've found so far with the C82 are, first, the dmax, and
second, a possible paper handling glitch.

While the dmax of the C82 doesn't match that of the 1280, the C82 with
PhotoRag hits 1.57 with Eboni black, which is not too bad for cotton.
Recall that the new cotton papers from Epson and Moab were hitting 1.6 -
1.62 with the 1280 and Epson driver.  I suspect those papers don't do much
better than the C82 when the Piezo driver is used with, for example, an
1160.  The Piezo driver, like the C82, under-prints the black ink with the
"color" inks.  It's a trade-off between smoothness and dmax.  With EEM the
dmax is 1.55, same with the new Permajet (cotton) ISC (there will be a new
name when released in January).  Some cotton papers are not good, however.
PremierArt was down at 1.46.

Of course, some will opt to use Gen 4 Enhance K or some other dye/pigment
hybrid to overcome this issue.  I'm not sure what the ratio is between Piezo
"Museum" K (pure pigment like Eboni) and the hybrid blacks Cone sells, but
many clearly go for the deeper black ink even if it fades and warms more.

The paper handling issue I've found with the C82 is that the head will
sometimes hit the corners of papers that curl.  Usually, I've just seen a
black mark on the bottom 1/8" edge of the paper, but on one piece it caught
the paper and moved it slightly, causing a dual/ghost image at the end of
the page.

The "problem" relates to the fact that the C82 head is set "vertically."
That is, for example, when you look at the parking pad the long axis/side is
perpendicular to the movement of the head.  When looking at a purge pattern
being printed, the color bars are being printed one after the other; they
are like stair-steps.  The yellow ink is the last one to be laid down and is
being printed about 1/2 to 3/4 inch away from the first set of rollers --
the main rollers/platen on most printers, I believe.  So, the yellow is
still being printed when the bottom of the paper is past/outside this first
set of rollers.  However, there is a second set of rollers, very near the
paper exit, that keeps the paper moving.  The system seems to work very well
most of the time.  Unfortunately, if a corner is turned up for some reason,
it might get hit by the head while the yellow ink is still being printed.

This vertical head arrangement may have some distinct benefits, of course.
I thought my old 1160 was a fine quad, but the dither and smoothness on this
cheap C82 is way ahead of it.  I suspect the vertical placement makes
alignment (and cheap assembly) much less of an issue, because I'd guess it
is mostly machined in the head when it's made -- by a very accurate machine.

The carts for the C82 (and C84) are still a bit of an open issue.  It
appears MIS has some new ones for the C82 that might make re-filling
extremely easy, avoiding the foam problems.  (Having only one "color" ink
also makes the process rather easy for both re-fillers and MIS.)  It may be
that with a re-setter, a single set of carts will last a very long time.
The current carts are, apparently, not easy to re-fill.  I'm not certain
when the C84 carts will be ready.

The independent color carts also appear to be all the same.  This could be
very interesting.  The yellow pumps in less ink than the others.  So, if I'm
lucky, a toner might be able to be mixed that, for example, makes a neutral
print when in the magenta spot and medium-warm print in the yellow slot.
Similarly for a sepia toner.  (Having one [already in inventory] gray ink in
all carts -- which just happen to be the same -- is also a nice little
inventory and cost benefit to MIS, which hopefully will be passed on the
users.)

I must say that I am beginning to like the Epson chips.  They keep track of
how full the carts are as they are being pulled in and out for different
effects, including color v. B&W.  As long as the 3rd-party chip engineers
can keep Epson's lead time down to a few months, the chips might be a net
benefit here.

(I have no idea what the differences are between the C-80 and C-84, but I'd
guess the model changes all have different chips.)

>1. Is this going to be offered by MIS as a kit or will I have to buy
>the components separately and prepare them myself?

I don't know, but the aim is to make something that is so simple that a
non-technical novice can do it all.

I'll be talking with a scrapbook store owner tomorrow about, among other
things, the expertise level to expect in that market.  From what I have
seen, I suspect there is a market for a turn-key system, but that may be
left to the local store owners.  I have no idea what MIS has in mind.

I also see a demand for training courses for the non-photographers.  I've
already been invited to speak at a genealogy society and ran out of cards
from older folks who wanted help scanning and printing their fading old B&W
photos.

>2. Will this work with other papers as well (i.e. Epson Heavyweight
>Matte)?

I suppose any paper will work.  The printer doesn't seem to have any trouble
with copier paper, EEM, or the 300-weight/thick paper I was trying.  It just
looks like curl on the bottom corners could be an issue.

Keep in mind that this is a $69 machine.  I don't recommend people throw
their 1280s away, but there are a lot of people who don't want to put out
that kind of cash.  The goal here is to lower the financial and expertise
barrier to outstanding, archival B&W printing by getting a cheap printer,
"no-workflow" inkset, and non-Photoshop image editor competitive with the
best systems -- and the C82 has made me believe more than ever that this can
be done.

Frankly, from what I've seen this last week, and since I use the 7500 with
UT inks for display prints, I might be very happy with the C82 and no 1280.
The "might" isn't a "would" mostly because I have not tested the toning
approaches yet.  That happens next week (since I ran out of carts last
week).  The only real question here is whether the plug-in toner cart
approach will work or whether we need to put the neutral/selenium ink (&
maybe others later) in all 3 spots.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Paul:

Thanks for doing, and sharing, your work on doing archival B&W with
reasonable expense and hassle. 

What are your current thoughts on using MIS-UT with C82/C84 vs. 1280? 

How about newer Epson models like 960 and the mysterious PX-G900?
Reason to delay a purchase decision?

Finally, I'd love to hear your thoughts about what to recommend for
archival *color* printing, if you do any of that.

I'm a rank beginner (Canon G3 bought yesterday; no printer) who, like
many folks, I suspect, has followed with great interest your quest for
'affordable "Carbon on Cotton"'. I'm willing and able to pay for a
1280 but also able to appreciate smaller price (and size) of C82/C84.
Print size difference is not crucial for me (8.5x11 in. fine for
awhile). I'm willing to have two photo printers (color, B&W) if need
be.

THANKS, AGAIN, FOR SHARING YOUR WORK.
Sean Streiff

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> >I looked in the Epson site and they list a C-84 and it is in the
right
> >price range (@$79 USD) but has a much higher claimed resolution....
> >or is the C-82 yet to be released.
> 
> I think the C82 is an older model.  MIS and Amazon have them, but
I'm not
> sure how many are still out there.  The C84 will be the next one,
> presumably, but for now there are no 3rd party carts available. MIS
thinks
> they use the same inks, but different chips.
> 
> The higher resolution of the C84 is probably visible with color
inks on
> RC/glossy paper, but with B&W on matte, I think a loupe would be
required to
> see the difference.  I was, frankly, astounded at how good the C82
is at
> 2880 (with High Speed off -- it does make a difference with this
printer)
> and when the same gray ink (MIS UT Light cyan) is in all three color
carts.
> 
> The weaknesses I've found so far with the C82 are, first, the dmax,
and
> second, a possible paper handling glitch.
> 
> While the dmax of the C82 doesn't match that of the 1280, the C82
with
> PhotoRag hits 1.57 with Eboni black, which is not too bad for
cotton.
> Recall that the new cotton papers from Epson and Moab were hitting
1.6 -
> 1.62 with the 1280 and Epson driver.  I suspect those papers don't
do much
> better than the C82 when the Piezo driver is used with, for
example, an
> 1160.  The Piezo driver, like the C82, under-prints the black ink
with the
> "color" inks.  It's a trade-off between smoothness and dmax.  With
EEM the
> dmax is 1.55, same with the new Permajet (cotton) ISC (there will be
a new
> name when released in January).  Some cotton papers are not good,
however.
> PremierArt was down at 1.46.

[snip]

> I thought my old 1160 was a fine quad, but the dither and smoothness
on this
> cheap C82 is way ahead of it.  I suspect the vertical placement
makes
> alignment (and cheap assembly) much less of an issue, because I'd
guess it
> is mostly machined in the head when it's made -- by a very accurate
machine.
> 
> The carts for the C82 (and C84) are still a bit of an open issue. 
It
> appears MIS has some new ones for the C82 that might make re-filling
> extremely easy, avoiding the foam problems.  (Having only one
"color" ink
> also makes the process rather easy for both re-fillers and MIS.)  It
may be
> that with a re-setter, a single set of carts will last a very long
time.
> The current carts are, apparently, not easy to re-fill.  I'm not
certain
> when the C84 carts will be ready.
> 
> The independent color carts also appear to be all the same.  This
could be
> very interesting.  The yellow pumps in less ink than the others. 
So, if I'm
> lucky, a toner might be able to be mixed that, for example, makes a
neutral
> print when in the magenta spot and medium-warm print in the yellow
slot.
> Similarly for a sepia toner.  (Having one [already in inventory]
gray ink in
> all carts -- which just happen to be the same -- is also a nice
little
> inventory and cost benefit to MIS, which hopefully will be passed
on the
> users.)

[snip]

> Keep in mind that this is a $69 machine.  I don't recommend people
throw
> their 1280s away, but there are a lot of people who don't want to
put out
> that kind of cash.  The goal here is to lower the financial and
expertise
> barrier to outstanding, archival B&W printing by getting a cheap
printer,
> "no-workflow" inkset, and non-Photoshop image editor competitive
with the
> best systems -- and the C82 has made me believe more than ever that
this can
> be done.
> 
> Frankly, from what I've seen this last week, and since I use the
7500 with
> UT inks for display prints, I might be very happy with the C82 and
no 1280.
> The "might" isn't a "would" mostly because I have not tested the
toning
> approaches yet.  That happens next week (since I ran out of carts
last
> week).  The only real question here is whether the plug-in toner
cart
> approach will work or whether we need to put the neutral/selenium
ink (&

> maybe others later) in all 3 spots.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com

Sean,

>What are your current thoughts on using MIS-UT with C82/C84 vs. 1280?

The big differences are that the 1280 can print 13" paper, the dmax is a bit
higher (1.62 on cotton v. 1.55, 1.66 on EEM v. 1.55), the 1280 has smoother
highlights than the C82 (unknown with respect to the C84), but the C82 is
about as good at the 2200 with IP5, so it's not bad.

The C82 is going to be simpler -- no curves, etc. -- and cheaper.

>How about newer Epson models like 960 and the mysterious PX-G900?
>Reason to delay a purchase decision?

I don't know much about them.  The idea was to get a machine that was as
affordable as possible and see what it could do in terms of archival
printing.  The results, frankly, surprised me.  I never expected such high
quality.

>Finally, I'd love to hear your thoughts about what to recommend for
>archival *color* printing, if you do any of that.

Well, the 2200 is a fine machine.  However, the C82 with its color Durabrite
pigmented inks does a very good job, and it's a lot cheaper.  The Durabrite
inks appear to be essentially the same as the UltraChromes, but without the
light black -- the lightfastness and longevity are about as good.  So, my
recommendation for the scrapbookers and genealogists is to get the C82 (or
C84 when the carts arrive) and just switch back and forth between the
Durabrite and carbon pigs as needed.  On matte paper, I think this little
4-ink printer at 2880 does an excellent job.   It's a great way to get into
digital printing affordably.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com
________________________________________


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> >I looked in the Epson site and they list a C-84 and it is in the
right
> >price range (@$79 USD) but has a much higher claimed resolution....
> >or is the C-82 yet to be released.
>
> I think the C82 is an older model.  MIS and Amazon have them, but
I'm not
> sure how many are still out there.  The C84 will be the next one,
> presumably, but for now there are no 3rd party carts available. MIS
thinks
> they use the same inks, but different chips.
>
> The higher resolution of the C84 is probably visible with color
inks on
> RC/glossy paper, but with B&W on matte, I think a loupe would be
required to
> see the difference.  I was, frankly, astounded at how good the C82
is at
> 2880 (with High Speed off -- it does make a difference with this
printer)
> and when the same gray ink (MIS UT Light cyan) is in all three color
carts.
>
> The weaknesses I've found so far with the C82 are, first, the dmax,
and
> second, a possible paper handling glitch.
>
> While the dmax of the C82 doesn't match that of the 1280, the C82
with
> PhotoRag hits 1.57 with Eboni black, which is not too bad for
cotton.
> Recall that the new cotton papers from Epson and Moab were hitting
1.6 -
> 1.62 with the 1280 and Epson driver.  I suspect those papers don't
do much
> better than the C82 when the Piezo driver is used with, for
example, an
> 1160.  The Piezo driver, like the C82, under-prints the black ink
with the
> "color" inks.  It's a trade-off between smoothness and dmax.  With
EEM the
> dmax is 1.55, same with the new Permajet (cotton) ISC (there will be
a new
> name when released in January).  Some cotton papers are not good,
however.
> PremierArt was down at 1.46.

[snip]

> I thought my old 1160 was a fine quad, but the dither and smoothness
on this
> cheap C82 is way ahead of it.  I suspect the vertical placement
makes
> alignment (and cheap assembly) much less of an issue, because I'd
guess it
> is mostly machined in the head when it's made -- by a very accurate
machine.
>
> The carts for the C82 (and C84) are still a bit of an open issue.
It
> appears MIS has some new ones for the C82 that might make re-filling
> extremely easy, avoiding the foam problems.  (Having only one
"color" ink
> also makes the process rather easy for both re-fillers and MIS.)  It
may be
> that with a re-setter, a single set of carts will last a very long
time.
> The current carts are, apparently, not easy to re-fill.  I'm not
certain
> when the C84 carts will be ready.
>
> The independent color carts also appear to be all the same.  This
could be
> very interesting.  The yellow pumps in less ink than the others.
So, if I'm
> lucky, a toner might be able to be mixed that, for example, makes a
neutral
> print when in the magenta spot and medium-warm print in the yellow
slot.
> Similarly for a sepia toner.  (Having one [already in inventory]
gray ink in
> all carts -- which just happen to be the same -- is also a nice
little
> inventory and cost benefit to MIS, which hopefully will be passed
on the
> users.)

[snip]

> Keep in mind that this is a $69 machine.  I don't recommend people
throw
> their 1280s away, but there are a lot of people who don't want to
put out
> that kind of cash.  The goal here is to lower the financial and
expertise
> barrier to outstanding, archival B&W printing by getting a cheap
printer,
> "no-workflow" inkset, and non-Photoshop image editor competitive
with the
> best systems -- and the C82 has made me believe more than ever that
this can
> be done.
>
> Frankly, from what I've seen this last week, and since I use the
7500 with
> UT inks for display prints, I might be very happy with the C82 and
no 1280.
> The "might" isn't a "would" mostly because I have not tested the
toning
> approaches yet.  That happens next week (since I ran out of carts
last
> week).  The only real question here is whether the plug-in toner
cart
> approach will work or whether we need to put the neutral/selenium
ink (&
> maybe others later) in all 3 spots.
>
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com



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--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Sean,
> 
> >What are your current thoughts on using MIS-UT with C82/C84 vs.
1280?
> 
> The big differences are that the 1280 can print 13" paper, the dmax
is a bit
> higher (1.62 on cotton v. 1.55, 1.66 on EEM v. 1.55), the 1280 has
smoother
> highlights than the C82 (unknown with respect to the C84), but the
C82 is
> about as good at the 2200 with IP5, so it's not bad.


Paul:
OK, thanks very much for this summary overview.


[snip]

> 
> >Finally, I'd love to hear your thoughts about what to recommend for
> >archival *color* printing, if you do any of that.
> 
> Well, the 2200 is a fine machine.  However, the C82 with its color
Durabrite
> pigmented inks does a very good job, and it's a lot cheaper.  The
Durabrite
> inks appear to be essentially the same as the UltraChromes, but
without the
> light black -- the lightfastness and longevity are about as good. 
So, my
> recommendation for the scrapbookers and genealogists


How about budding digital photo enthusiasts (with modest wet darkroom
experience)?


> is to get the C82 (or
> C84 when the carts arrive) and just switch back and forth between
the
> Durabrite and carbon pigs as needed.  On matte paper, I think this
little
> 4-ink printer at 2880 does an excellent job.   It's a great way to
get into
> digital printing affordably.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com


Thanks again for your help (I'm assuming that I'm not the only one
benefiting from this).

-Sean

paul,

somehow the message below got misdirected to me!

Since I have you here, one question:

Does it make sense to create ICC profiles for the UT
inks on the different papers and create cool, neutral
and warm tones with the ICC profiles?

Alfred



--- Paul Roark <paul.roark@...> wrote:
> Sean,
> 
> >What are your current thoughts on using MIS-UT with
> C82/C84 vs. 1280?
> 
> The big differences are that the 1280 can print 13"
> paper, the dmax is a bit
> higher (1.62 on cotton v. 1.55, 1.66 on EEM v.
> 1.55), the 1280 has smoother
> highlights than the C82 (unknown with respect to the
> C84), but the C82 is
> about as good at the 2200 with IP5, so it's not bad.
> 
> The C82 is going to be simpler -- no curves, etc. --
> and cheaper.
> 
> >How about newer Epson models like 960 and the
> mysterious PX-G900?
> >Reason to delay a purchase decision?
> 
> I don't know much about them.  The idea was to get a
> machine that was as
> affordable as possible and see what it could do in
> terms of archival
> printing.  The results, frankly, surprised me.  I
> never expected such high
> quality.
> 
> >Finally, I'd love to hear your thoughts about what
> to recommend for
> >archival *color* printing, if you do any of that.
> 
> Well, the 2200 is a fine machine.  However, the C82
> with its color Durabrite
> pigmented inks does a very good job, and it's a lot
> cheaper.  The Durabrite
> inks appear to be essentially the same as the
> UltraChromes, but without the
> light black -- the lightfastness and longevity are
> about as good.  So, my
> recommendation for the scrapbookers and genealogists
> is to get the C82 (or
> C84 when the carts arrive) and just switch back and
> forth between the
> Durabrite and carbon pigs as needed.  On matte
> paper, I think this little
> 4-ink printer at 2880 does an excellent job.   It's
> a great way to get into
> digital printing affordably.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
> ________________________________________
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,
> "Paul Roark"
> <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > >I looked in the Epson site and they list a C-84
> and it is in the
> right
> > >price range (@$79 USD) but has a much higher
> claimed resolution....
> > >or is the C-82 yet to be released.
> >
> > I think the C82 is an older model.  MIS and Amazon
> have them, but
> I'm not
> > sure how many are still out there.  The C84 will
> be the next one,
> > presumably, but for now there are no 3rd party
> carts available. MIS
> thinks
> > they use the same inks, but different chips.
> >
> > The higher resolution of the C84 is probably
> visible with color
> inks on
> > RC/glossy paper, but with B&W on matte, I think a
> loupe would be
> required to
> > see the difference.  I was, frankly, astounded at
> how good the C82
> is at
> > 2880 (with High Speed off -- it does make a
> difference with this
> printer)
> > and when the same gray ink (MIS UT Light cyan) is
> in all three color
> carts.
> >
> > The weaknesses I've found so far with the C82 are,
> first, the dmax,
> and
> > second, a possible paper handling glitch.
> >
> > While the dmax of the C82 doesn't match that of
> the 1280, the C82
> with
> > PhotoRag hits 1.57 with Eboni black, which is not
> too bad for
> cotton.
> > Recall that the new cotton papers from Epson and
> Moab were hitting
> 1.6 -
> > 1.62 with the 1280 and Epson driver.  I suspect
> those papers don't
> do much
> > better than the C82 when the Piezo driver is used
> with, for
> example, an
> > 1160.  The Piezo driver, like the C82,
> under-prints the black ink
> with the
> > "color" inks.  It's a trade-off between smoothness
> and dmax.  With
> EEM the
> > dmax is 1.55, same with the new Permajet (cotton)
> ISC (there will be
> a new
> > name when released in January).  Some cotton
> papers are not good,
> however.
> > PremierArt was down at 1.46.
> 
> [snip]
> 
> > I thought my old 1160 was a fine quad, but the
> dither and smoothness
> on this
> > cheap C82 is way ahead of it.  I suspect the
> vertical placement
> makes
> > alignment (and cheap assembly) much less of an
> issue, because I'd
> guess it
> > is mostly machined in the head when it's made --
> by a very accurate
> machine.
> >
> > The carts for the C82 (and C84) are still a bit of
> an open issue.
> It
> > appears MIS has some new ones for the C82 that
> might make re-filling
> > extremely easy, avoiding the foam problems. 
> (Having only one
> "color" ink
> > also makes the process rather easy for both
> re-fillers and MIS.)  It
> may be
> > that with a re-setter, a single set of carts will
> last a very long
> time.
> > The current carts are, apparently, not easy to
> re-fill.  I'm not
> certain
> > when the C84 carts will be ready.
> >
> > The independent color carts also appear to be all
> the same.  This
> could be
> > very interesting.  The yellow pumps in less ink
> than the others.
> So, if I'm
> > lucky, a toner might be able to be mixed that, for
> example, makes a
> neutral
> > print when in the magenta spot and medium-warm
> print in the yellow
> slot.
> > Similarly for a sepia toner.  (Having one [already
> in inventory]
> gray ink in
> > all carts -- which just happen to be the same --
> is also a nice
> little
> > inventory and cost benefit to MIS, which hopefully
> will be passed
> on the
> > users.)
> 
> [snip]
> 
> > Keep in mind that this is a $69 machine.  I don't
> recommend people
> throw
> > their 1280s away, but there are a lot of people
> who don't want to
> put out
> > that kind of cash.  The goal here is to lower the
> financial and
> expertise
> > barrier to outstanding, archival B&W printing by
> getting a cheap
> printer,
> > "no-workflow" inkset, and non-Photoshop image
> editor competitive
> with the
> > best systems -- and the C82 has made me believe
> more than ever that
> 
=== message truncated ===


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears
http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/

Sorry, 

I forgot that yahoo groups emails messages unless clicked off - Has 
anyone already mentioned how the yahoo forum format sucks?

anyway, sorry for the confusion.

Alfred



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Voegels Alfred 
<aevoegels@y...> wrote:

> paul,
> 
> somehow the message below got misdirected to me!
> 
> Since I have you here, one question:
> 
> Does it make sense to create ICC profiles for the UT
> inks on the different papers and create cool, neutral
> and warm tones with the ICC profiles?
> 
> Alfred
> 
> 
> 
> --- Paul Roark <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > Sean,
> > 
> > >What are your current thoughts on using MIS-UT with
> > C82/C84 vs. 1280?
> > 
> > The big differences are that the 1280 can print 13"
> > paper, the dmax is a bit
> > higher (1.62 on cotton v. 1.55, 1.66 on EEM v.
> > 1.55), the 1280 has smoother
> > highlights than the C82 (unknown with respect to the
> > C84), but the C82 is
> > about as good at the 2200 with IP5, so it's not bad.
> > 
> > The C82 is going to be simpler -- no curves, etc. --
> > and cheaper.
> > 
> > >How about newer Epson models like 960 and the
> > mysterious PX-G900?
> > >Reason to delay a purchase decision?
> > 
> > I don't know much about them.  The idea was to get a
> > machine that was as
> > affordable as possible and see what it could do in
> > terms of archival
> > printing.  The results, frankly, surprised me.  I
> > never expected such high
> > quality.
> > 
> > >Finally, I'd love to hear your thoughts about what
> > to recommend for
> > >archival *color* printing, if you do any of that.
> > 
> > Well, the 2200 is a fine machine.  However, the C82
> > with its color Durabrite
> > pigmented inks does a very good job, and it's a lot
> > cheaper.  The Durabrite
> > inks appear to be essentially the same as the
> > UltraChromes, but without the
> > light black -- the lightfastness and longevity are
> > about as good.  So, my
> > recommendation for the scrapbookers and genealogists
> > is to get the C82 (or
> > C84 when the carts arrive) and just switch back and
> > forth between the
> > Durabrite and carbon pigs as needed.  On matte
> > paper, I think this little
> > 4-ink printer at 2880 does an excellent job.   It's
> > a great way to get into
> > digital printing affordably.
> > 
> > Paul
> > http://www.PaulRoark.com
> > ________________________________________
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,
> > "Paul Roark"
> > <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > > >I looked in the Epson site and they list a C-84
> > and it is in the
> > right
> > > >price range (@$79 USD) but has a much higher
> > claimed resolution....
> > > >or is the C-82 yet to be released.
> > >
> > > I think the C82 is an older model.  MIS and Amazon
> > have them, but
> > I'm not
> > > sure how many are still out there.  The C84 will
> > be the next one,
> > > presumably, but for now there are no 3rd party
> > carts available. MIS
> > thinks
> > > they use the same inks, but different chips.
> > >
> > > The higher resolution of the C84 is probably
> > visible with color
> > inks on
> > > RC/glossy paper, but with B&W on matte, I think a
> > loupe would be
> > required to
> > > see the difference.  I was, frankly, astounded at
> > how good the C82
> > is at
> > > 2880 (with High Speed off -- it does make a
> > difference with this
> > printer)
> > > and when the same gray ink (MIS UT Light cyan) is
> > in all three color
> > carts.
> > >
> > > The weaknesses I've found so far with the C82 are,
> > first, the dmax,
> > and
> > > second, a possible paper handling glitch.
> > >
> > > While the dmax of the C82 doesn't match that of
> > the 1280, the C82
> > with
> > > PhotoRag hits 1.57 with Eboni black, which is not
> > too bad for
> > cotton.
> > > Recall that the new cotton papers from Epson and
> > Moab were hitting
> > 1.6 -
> > > 1.62 with the 1280 and Epson driver.  I suspect
> > those papers don't
> > do much
> > > better than the C82 when the Piezo driver is used
> > with, for
> > example, an
> > > 1160.  The Piezo driver, like the C82,
> > under-prints the black ink
> > with the
> > > "color" inks.  It's a trade-off between smoothness
> > and dmax.  With
> > EEM the
> > > dmax is 1.55, same with the new Permajet (cotton)
> > ISC (there will be
> > a new
> > > name when released in January).  Some cotton
> > papers are not good,
> > however.
> > > PremierArt was down at 1.46.
> > 
> > [snip]
> > 
> > > I thought my old 1160 was a fine quad, but the
> > dither and smoothness
> > on this
> > > cheap C82 is way ahead of it.  I suspect the
> > vertical placement
> > makes
> > > alignment (and cheap assembly) much less of an
> > issue, because I'd
> > guess it
> > > is mostly machined in the head when it's made --
> > by a very accurate
> > machine.
> > >
> > > The carts for the C82 (and C84) are still a bit of
> > an open issue.
> > It
> > > appears MIS has some new ones for the C82 that
> > might make re-filling
> > > extremely easy, avoiding the foam problems. 
> > (Having only one
> > "color" ink
> > > also makes the process rather easy for both
> > re-fillers and MIS.)  It
> > may be
> > > that with a re-setter, a single set of carts will
> > last a very long
> > time.
> > > The current carts are, apparently, not easy to
> > re-fill.  I'm not
> > certain
> > > when the C84 carts will be ready.
> > >
> > > The independent color carts also appear to be all
> > the same.  This
> > could be
> > > very interesting.  The yellow pumps in less ink
> > than the others.
> > So, if I'm
> > > lucky, a toner might be able to be mixed that, for
> > example, makes a
> > neutral
> > > print when in the magenta spot and medium-warm
> > print in the yellow
> > slot.
> > > Similarly for a sepia toner.  (Having one [already
> > in inventory]
> > gray ink in
> > > all carts -- which just happen to be the same --
> > is also a nice
> > little
> > > inventory and cost benefit to MIS, which hopefully
> > will be passed
> > on the
> > > users.)
> > 
> > [snip]
> > 
> > > Keep in mind that this is a $69 machine.  I don't
> > recommend people
> > throw
> > > their 1280s away, but there are a lot of people
> > who don't want to
> > put out
> > > that kind of cash.  The goal here is to lower the
> > financial and
> > expertise
> > > barrier to outstanding, archival B&W printing by
> > getting a cheap
> > printer,
> > > "no-workflow" inkset, and non-Photoshop image
> > editor competitive
> > with the
> > > best systems -- and the C82 has made me believe
> > more than ever that
> > 
> === message truncated ===
> 
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears
> http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/

Sean,

As to your question about the quality of the C82 color printing, it's
probably subjective.  However, it's good enough for me.  I did my (picky
princess) daughter's senior high school yearbook photo with it, and she was
pleased.  Last year I did a wedding in color on my 1160, and the people were
very pleased -- and the C82 is better than the 1160.  So, with matte paper I
consider the quality to be very good.  I think the RC/glossy paper is where
one might see more differences between this 4-ink printer and the hextone
printers.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com
________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: seanstreiff [mailto:seanstreiff@...]
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 2:54 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson C82 affordable "Carbon on Cotton"


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Sean,
>
> >What are your current thoughts on using MIS-UT with C82/C84 vs.
1280?
>
> The big differences are that the 1280 can print 13" paper, the dmax
is a bit
> higher (1.62 on cotton v. 1.55, 1.66 on EEM v. 1.55), the 1280 has
smoother
> highlights than the C82 (unknown with respect to the C84), but the
C82 is
> about as good at the 2200 with IP5, so it's not bad.


Paul:
OK, thanks very much for this summary overview.


[snip]

>
> >Finally, I'd love to hear your thoughts about what to recommend for
> >archival *color* printing, if you do any of that.
>
> Well, the 2200 is a fine machine.  However, the C82 with its color
Durabrite
> pigmented inks does a very good job, and it's a lot cheaper.  The
Durabrite
> inks appear to be essentially the same as the UltraChromes, but
without the
> light black -- the lightfastness and longevity are about as good.
So, my
> recommendation for the scrapbookers and genealogists


How about budding digital photo enthusiasts (with modest wet darkroom
experience)?


> is to get the C82 (or
> C84 when the carts arrive) and just switch back and forth between
the
> Durabrite and carbon pigs as needed.  On matte paper, I think this
little
> 4-ink printer at 2880 does an excellent job.   It's a great way to
get into
> digital printing affordably.
>
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com


Thanks again for your help (I'm assuming that I'm not the only one
benefiting from this).

-Sean



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Alfred,

>Does it make sense to create ICC profiles for the UT
>inks on the different papers and create cool, neutral
>and warm tones with the ICC profiles?

I'm just not familiar enough with ICC profiles to know.  I suspect they
might be easier to use (if they worked), but I'm not sure they would be as
easy or cheap to create or modify by users.  My whole approach is oriented
to open and free systems.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

ICC profiles are obviously easier to use.  But, remember that a profile that is not right on is pretty much worthless.  And, to get really good ones you have to pay.  Either in you own time and equipment, or someone else's time and equipment.  If you attempt to have profiles done, be sure you get a "SATISFACTION GUARNTEED" guarntee.  
 
Tom Baker

Paul Roark <paul.roark@...> wrote:
Alfred,

>Does it make sense to create ICC profiles for the UT
>inks on the different papers and create cool, neutral
>and warm tones with the ICC profiles?

I'm just not familiar enough with ICC profiles to know.  I suspect they
might be easier to use (if they worked), but I'm not sure they would be as
easy or cheap to create or modify by users.  My whole approach is oriented
to open and free systems.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com



Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
 
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- Include your full name with your message.
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- Complete your Yahoo profile.
- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. 




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> From: Paul Roark [mailto:paul.roark@...]
>
> >Does it make sense to create ICC profiles for the UT
> >inks on the different papers and create cool, neutral
> >and warm tones with the ICC profiles?
>
> I'm just not familiar enough with ICC profiles to know.  I suspect they
> might be easier to use (if they worked), but I'm not sure they would be as
> easy or cheap to create or modify by users.  My whole approach is oriented
> to open and free systems.

The purpose of a profile is to accurately describe the hardware. If you want
to print cool, neutral or warm using color inks, then you really want to use
conventional color balance controls for that, so you can see it on the
screen, and then rely upon the profile to do what it's really intended for,
which is to make the print look like the screen.

--

Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
Paul                mailto:pderocco@...

I want to especially thank Paul and Clayton (but many others also) 
for their contributions to this group.

This is the first time anyone in the group has heard any sort of 
noise out of me, but I have been reading and learning for quite a 
while now.  Thanks! 

The Epson C82 with your suggestion of MIS Eboni and UT Light Cyan is 
very interesting to me, but the C84 seems to an even more desirable 
printer – not just because Epson has dropped the C82.

I asked MIS today about support for the C84 but they were unable to 
give a definite answer.
Also the person I talked to didn't know about your `no curves, etc.' 
set setup for the C82.

I am wondering if anyone is planning to try this setup.
 

Sincerely,
David Polasek
dp4391@go2netmail.com




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Sean,
> 
> As to your question about the quality of the C82 color printing, 
it's
> probably subjective.  However, it's good enough for me.  I did my 
(picky
> princess) daughter's senior high school yearbook photo with it, and 
she was
> pleased.  Last year I did a wedding in color on my 1160, and the 
people were
> very pleased -- and the C82 is better than the 1160.  So, with 
matte paper I
> consider the quality to be very good.  I think the RC/glossy paper 
is where
> one might see more differences between this 4-ink printer and the 
hextone
> printers.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
> ________________________________________
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: seanstreiff [mailto:seanstreiff@e...]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 2:54 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson C82 affordable "Carbon on Cotton"
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
> <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > Sean,
> >
> > >What are your current thoughts on using MIS-UT with C82/C84 vs.
> 1280?
> >
> > The big differences are that the 1280 can print 13" paper, the 
dmax
> is a bit
> > higher (1.62 on cotton v. 1.55, 1.66 on EEM v. 1.55), the 1280 has
> smoother
> > highlights than the C82 (unknown with respect to the C84), but the
> C82 is
> > about as good at the 2200 with IP5, so it's not bad.
> 
> 
> Paul:
> OK, thanks very much for this summary overview.
> 
> 
> [snip]
> 
> >
> > >Finally, I'd love to hear your thoughts about what to recommend 
for
> > >archival *color* printing, if you do any of that.
> >
> > Well, the 2200 is a fine machine.  However, the C82 with its color
> Durabrite
> > pigmented inks does a very good job, and it's a lot cheaper.  The
> Durabrite
> > inks appear to be essentially the same as the UltraChromes, but
> without the
> > light black -- the lightfastness and longevity are about as good.
> So, my
> > recommendation for the scrapbookers and genealogists
> 
> 
> How about budding digital photo enthusiasts (with modest wet 
darkroom

> experience)?
> 
> 
> > is to get the C82 (or
> > C84 when the carts arrive) and just switch back and forth between
> the
> > Durabrite and carbon pigs as needed.  On matte paper, I think this
> little
> > 4-ink printer at 2880 does an excellent job.   It's a great way to
> get into
> > digital printing affordably.
> >
> > Paul
> > http://www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 
> Thanks again for your help (I'm assuming that I'm not the only one
> benefiting from this).
> 
> -Sean

David,

The only problem with the C84 is that the chips for the carts are not yet
available.  MIS thinks they use the same Durabrite inks as the C82 and the
same cartridges -- but different chips.

There is no shortage of C82s out there from $69.  See, for example,
http://www.nextag.com/Epson_Stylus_Color_C82~55322144z0znzzz1zzc82_epson_sty
luszmainz2-htm (cut and paste the wrapped part of the URL)

MIS has received the new C82 carts and they are in the mail to me.  I'll
have a neutral version of the inkset soon.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

_______________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: dp20031997 [mailto:dp4391@...]
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 2:14 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson C82 affordable "Carbon on Cotton"



I want to especially thank Paul and Clayton (but many others also)
for their contributions to this group.

This is the first time anyone in the group has heard any sort of
noise out of me, but I have been reading and learning for quite a
while now.  Thanks!

The Epson C82 with your suggestion of MIS Eboni and UT Light Cyan is
very interesting to me, but the C84 seems to an even more desirable
printer \ufffd not just because Epson has dropped the C82.

I asked MIS today about support for the C84 but they were unable to
give a definite answer.
Also the person I talked to didn't know about your `no curves, etc.'
set setup for the C82.

I am wondering if anyone is planning to try this setup.


Sincerely,
David Polasek
dp4391@...




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Sean,
>
> As to your question about the quality of the C82 color printing,
it's
> probably subjective.  However, it's good enough for me.  I did my
(picky
> princess) daughter's senior high school yearbook photo with it, and
she was
> pleased.  Last year I did a wedding in color on my 1160, and the
people were
> very pleased -- and the C82 is better than the 1160.  So, with
matte paper I
> consider the quality to be very good.  I think the RC/glossy paper
is where
> one might see more differences between this 4-ink printer and the
hextone
> printers.
>
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
> ________________________________________
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: seanstreiff [mailto:seanstreiff@e...]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 2:54 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson C82 affordable "Carbon on Cotton"
>
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
> <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > Sean,
> >
> > >What are your current thoughts on using MIS-UT with C82/C84 vs.
> 1280?
> >
> > The big differences are that the 1280 can print 13" paper, the
dmax
> is a bit
> > higher (1.62 on cotton v. 1.55, 1.66 on EEM v. 1.55), the 1280 has
> smoother
> > highlights than the C82 (unknown with respect to the C84), but the
> C82 is
> > about as good at the 2200 with IP5, so it's not bad.
>
>
> Paul:
> OK, thanks very much for this summary overview.
>
>
> [snip]
>
> >
> > >Finally, I'd love to hear your thoughts about what to recommend
for
> > >archival *color* printing, if you do any of that.
> >
> > Well, the 2200 is a fine machine.  However, the C82 with its color
> Durabrite
> > pigmented inks does a very good job, and it's a lot cheaper.  The
> Durabrite
> > inks appear to be essentially the same as the UltraChromes, but
> without the
> > light black -- the lightfastness and longevity are about as good.
> So, my
> > recommendation for the scrapbookers and genealogists
>
>
> How about budding digital photo enthusiasts (with modest wet
darkroom
> experience)?
>
>
> > is to get the C82 (or
> > C84 when the carts arrive) and just switch back and forth between
> the
> > Durabrite and carbon pigs as needed.  On matte paper, I think this
> little
> > 4-ink printer at 2880 does an excellent job.   It's a great way to
> get into
> > digital printing affordably.
> >
> > Paul
> > http://www.PaulRoark.com
>
>
> Thanks again for your help (I'm assuming that I'm not the only one
> benefiting from this).
>
> -Sean




Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- Include your full name with your message.
- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
- Complete your Yahoo profile.
- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Hi all,

With much sadness yesterday, I had to pronounce my
trusty 875dc deceaded, time of death 3:03pm.  

As this was the workhorse printer that my wife and I
share, it needed immediate repacement.  Great, I
thought, I'd just run out and buy one of the C82's. 
Unfortunatly they were all out of stock except for the
display so I picked up a C84 (thinking that they were
the same beast but a better model).

Long story a bit longer, the printer was dead on
arrival.  As I looked closer at the printer itself, it
is a really shoddy model, not in the same league as
the C82.  As I did not want to repeat this process, I
brought it back and exchanged it for an Epson 825
which uses the same (dye) cartridges as the 870/875dc
(which I still have a stack of) This was a pleasant
surprise, as the canned profiles were spot on out of
the box.  

So the moral is, if you would like to try out the C82
- get one before they are gone, because the C84 is not
a very impressive replacement model.

So, back to the beginning, If anyone wants the 875dc
for printing black only, you can have it for the cost
of shipping (contact off list please), but the cyan
channel is dead.

Don


--- Paul Roark <paul.roark@...> wrote:
> >I looked in the Epson site and they list a C-84 and
> it is in the right
> >price range (@$79 USD) but has a much higher
> claimed resolution....
> >or is the C-82 yet to be released.
> 
> I think the C82 is an older model.  MIS and Amazon
> have them, but I'm not
> sure how many are still out there.  The C84 will be
> the next one,
> presumably, but for now there are no 3rd party carts
> available. MIS thinks
> they use the same inks, but different chips.


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears
http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/

Don,

Thanks for the information.

>... I thought, I'd just run out and buy one of the C82's.
>Unfortunatly they were all out of stock ...

Was this true of the internet sellers also, or was this just the local
stores?

> except for the
>display so I picked up a C84 (thinking that they were
>the same beast but a better model).

>... it is a really shoddy model,
>not in the same league as the C82. ...

That's very bad news.  I'll pass the information on to MIS.  Maybe I ought
to focus my efforts on some other model.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com
__________________________________

--- Paul Roark <paul.roark@...> wrote:
> >I looked in the Epson site and they list a C-84 and
> it is in the right
> >price range (@$79 USD) but has a much higher
> claimed resolution....
> >or is the C-82 yet to be released.
>
> I think the C82 is an older model.  MIS and Amazon
> have them, but I'm not
> sure how many are still out there.  The C84 will be
> the next one,
> presumably, but for now there are no 3rd party carts
> available. MIS thinks
> they use the same inks, but different chips.


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears
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Hi again

I have found ONE new C82 at a local dealer here and I plan to pick 
it up ASAP. Actually I may also buy up the floor model too if 
possible :-)


Is there any word from MIS as to when the inks/cartridges may be 
available?

Thanks

Joe 


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:

> Don,
> 
> Thanks for the information.
> 
> >... I thought, I'd just run out and buy one of the C82's.
> >Unfortunatly they were all out of stock ...
>

MIS says there are lots of C82s still out there.  I hope they are right.

Carts are supposed to be in the mail to me.   MIS was not able to get the
ones they hoped for, but what is coming is apparently easy to bottom fill,
but the total ink capacity may not be quite what it is supposed to be.

I'll get a neutral solution ASAP -- this week, hopefully.

If the C84 isn't up to the job we'll find an alternative and do the same
approach.  I'm determined to have this technology available to all.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com
______________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: joseph07081 [mailto:joseph07081@...]
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 4:37 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson C82 "Carbon on Cotton", but be warned of
the C84


Hi again

I have found ONE new C82 at a local dealer here and I plan to pick
it up ASAP. Actually I may also buy up the floor model too if
possible :-)


Is there any word from MIS as to when the inks/cartridges may be
available?

Thanks

Joe


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Don,
>
> Thanks for the information.
>
> >... I thought, I'd just run out and buy one of the C82's.
> >Unfortunatly they were all out of stock ...
>




Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
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- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
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Paul,

None of my local stores had the c82 in stock.  This is
unfortunate, but as this model is a closeout any that
can be found should be able to be purchased at an
extraordinary deal.

A few online dealers still have remaining stock of the
printer, but the supply is short - it seems the best
place of purchase would be office depot.

Don


--- Paul Roark <paul.roark@...> wrote:
> Don,
> 
> Thanks for the information.
> 
> >... I thought, I'd just run out and buy one of the
> C82's.
> >Unfortunatly they were all out of stock ...
> 
> Was this true of the internet sellers also, or was
> this just the local
> stores?
> 


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears
http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/

I purchased 2 C82 printers at Staples yesterday for $69.00 each.  They had a
couple of others in stock at this particular store.

Barbara
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "D. Hill" <hill14701@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 9:30 AM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Epson C82 "Carbon on Cotton", but be warned of the
C84


> Paul,
>
> None of my local stores had the c82 in stock.  This is
> unfortunate, but as this model is a closeout any that
> can be found should be able to be purchased at an
> extraordinary deal.
>
> A few online dealers still have remaining stock of the
> printer, but the supply is short - it seems the best
> place of purchase would be office depot.
>
> Don
>
>
> --- Paul Roark <paul.roark@...> wrote:
> > Don,
> >
> > Thanks for the information.
> >
> > >... I thought, I'd just run out and buy one of the
> > C82's.
> > >Unfortunatly they were all out of stock ...
> >
> > Was this true of the internet sellers also, or was
> > this just the local
> > stores?
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears
> http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Paul,

I finally found one at a local Staples which they are holding for me 
until tomorrow.  I hope you are still interested in trying to work 
with this printer but I'll at least get to try BO with the ink 
shipped with it.
I'll be in your debt if work out anything with it (even curves).

Thanks.




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "D. Hill" 
<hill14701@y...> wrote:

> Paul,
> 
> None of my local stores had the c82 in stock.  This is
> unfortunate, but as this model is a closeout any that
> can be found should be able to be purchased at an
> extraordinary deal.
> 
> A few online dealers still have remaining stock of the
> printer, but the supply is short - it seems the best
> place of purchase would be office depot.
> 
> Don
> 
> 
> --- Paul Roark <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > Don,
> > 
> > Thanks for the information.
> > 
> > >... I thought, I'd just run out and buy one of the
> > C82's.
> > >Unfortunatly they were all out of stock ...
> > 
> > Was this true of the internet sellers also, or was
> > this just the local
> > stores?
> > 
> 
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears
> http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/

Don,

>I finally found one at a local Staples ...
>I hope you are still interested in trying to work
>with this printer ...

I just received the new empty carts for the C82 today.  They are not the as
"refill-friendly" as MIS had hoped, but they work.  (MIS apparently has a
CFS for this printer for high volume users.)

I also just printed a PhotoRag neutral print.  The neutral (slight
"selenium" tone) inkset needs at least one more iteration, but it looks
good.  (Dmax on PhotoRag with this version is 1.59.)

So, it's still looking like an excellent affordable and simple B&W printing
solution -- print from grayscale files & no curves to mess with.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com
_____________________________________________




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "D. Hill"
<hill14701@y...> wrote:
> Paul,
>
> None of my local stores had the c82 in stock.  This is
> unfortunate, but as this model is a closeout any that
> can be found should be able to be purchased at an
> extraordinary deal.
>
> A few online dealers still have remaining stock of the
> printer, but the supply is short - it seems the best
> place of purchase would be office depot.
>
> Don
>
>
> --- Paul Roark <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > Don,
> >
> > Thanks for the information.
> >
> > >... I thought, I'd just run out and buy one of the
> > C82's.
> > >Unfortunatly they were all out of stock ...
> >
> > Was this true of the internet sellers also, or was
> > this just the local
> > stores?
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears
> http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
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- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
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- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
- Complete your Yahoo profile.
- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
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