Digital BW, The Print

* -----Original Message-----
* From: Roy Harrington [mailto:roy@harrington.com] 
* Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 11:11 PM
* To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
* Subject: [Digital BW] Re: clyde butcher carbon
* 
* 
*
(snip earlier)
* 
* Clyde is pretty clear that his prints use UltraChrome inks, 
* but he does use the term "archival carbon print" in his 
* statement about digital prints.
* 
* I'm not sure but aren't the black and light-black UltraChrome 
* inks based 
* on carbon pigment?  The black inks are rated better than the 
* color inks.
* 
* It seems to me whether someone is using UltraChrome inks with 
* one of the RIPs to use a minimal amount of color ink, or they 
* are using one of the quadtone ink sets, what you have on the 
* paper is essentially the same. In both cases you have 
* primarily black carbon pigment plus a small 
* amount of some color pigments to get the desired color tone.
* 
* The only issue I can see is the possible perception that the 
* digital prints are "cheap" versions of photographs.  I've 
* certainly found that perception come up regularly.  Those who 
* make just inkjet prints want to think of them as just another 
* equivalent process -- i.e. you should charge the same for the 
* same image regardless of the process.  Those who want to do 
* both wet darkroom and inkjet prints may want to position them 
* differently to widen their market coverage.  I think both 
* arguments have merit but they are hard to reconcile.
* 
Roy,

You are right. Clyde does use the term "archival carbon print" in his
description of his prints. My deepest apologies to Boris! I missed it the on
the first and second read.

I still would take exception to calling UltraChrome prints carbon prints. I
can't find anywhere that Epson has identified their black pigment as carbon
but if someone knows otherwise please let me know. The C,M,Y inks certainly
can't be carbon. As I understand it, with most of the RIPs only the yellow
is not used in B&W printing to reduce metamerism but the four MmCc inks are
used along with K and light k. The amount of non-carbon pigment would depend
upon the workflow and how it was used. The non-carbon amount might be very
slight or it might be significant. Clyde could be using the Epson driver
with the gray balancer for all we know. Without seeing the prints and
knowing how he made them it is impossible to say. With only a black and a
light black I would think that the amount of other inks would have to be
significant.

I guess it is a matter of semantics but if you are using an ink set that
consists of at least 5 inks out of 7 that are not carbon I feel you are not
being entirely honest in saying they are "carbon prints".

If you want to be strictly honest only the Carbon Sepia Piezotone inks
should be called "carbon prints" since all other ink sets use some color
pigments to achieve their hue. Once MIS converts their ink sets to dilutions
of Eboni they would also be pure carbon. This assumes that the promotional
material I have read on these inks is correct.

The other thing to keep in mind is that some color pigments, especially
Cyan, have shown excellent fade resistance and when mixed with carbon
improved image stability.

I guess it is a judgment call. For myself I feel comfortable calling all the
Piezotone sets, MIS Full Spectrum, MIS Variable Mix and MIS UltraTone inks
"carbon" since that is the predominant pigment even though tiny amounts of
other pigments are used in some of them. Extending the term "carbon" to a
full CcMcYKk set of unspecified content seems to be stretching things too
far but that is my own take on it.

In terms of longevity my opinion is that a carbon based ink set on high
quality archival paper is going to hold up much better than the UltraChromes
on RC paper. We will have to wait and see but I doubt I will live long
enough to find out which one wins. If Epson is correct in their display life
estimates, probably very few of the members of this group will find out
either. So in the long run the argument may be entirely unimportant but at
this stage I am inclined to favor a distinction between B&W prints made with
grayscale carbon ink sets and B&W prints made with color pigment ink sets.

Martin