Digital BW, The Print

Thanks Alan, thorough answer.  But to be honest it only confuses me 
more, perhaps I need to read up a lot more on IP....
IF IP can make a neutral grey with a given set of inks and a given 
paper, why can't it do neutral grey with a bit of colour in the 
middle....?

Hope to see a IP / Ultrachrome print through an exchange one day....

Thanks

Steve

-- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, 
<Alan.Huntley@c...> wrote:
> Steve,
> 
> Generally, it seems you have a good grasp of the issues involved. I 
have read that the lack of metamerism in IP produced B&W is due to 
not using the Yellow ink position. Others have said this is bunk. I 
dunno, and really don't care, because I know from many B&W images 
produced using IP and viewed under various light sources that 
metamerism is not a problem.
> 
> However, if you want to print Sepia, create a Selenium toned look, 
or combo color/B&W, then you'll be forced to use a color paper 
profile which, of course, is going to cause all those issues we've 
tried to avoid. I guess that's the current "state of affairs" as it 
were... I have read that IP 6.0 is going to allow more drastic 
grayscale tonal shifts to colors like Sepia and Selenium.
> 
> Alan Huntley
> 
> > 
> > From: "scrber" <stephen.bate@m...>
> > Date: 2003/11/11 Tue AM 08:50:48 EST
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Image Print vs Septone -> Sepia etc?
> > 
> > 
> > > I've read of initial problems with the Septone system 
(cartridge 
> > issues), but I believe they've all be resolved. I use IP 5.6 (PC) 
for 
> > both color and B&W printing. I can assure you that grayscale 
output, 
> > at least to my eye, is dead neutral when using tint 50,50. Other 
tint 
> > values can be specified which will subtlely shift the "color" 
either 
> > warmer or cooler. No where near the tone shifts of, say, the MIS 
UT 
> > inkset and Paul's curves, but slight toning nonetheless. 
> > 
> > .....Just a thought, but what stops you printing as a colour 
image in 
> > IP?  Can't you just add your Sepia/selenium or whatever layer to 
your 
> > B&W image and print it with the 'colour' engine?  Only curious as 
I 
> > am considering this as my future in printing with a 4000.  One of 
my 
> > ideas was that I could replace Sepia, UT and colour inksets / 
> > workflows in one hit.  Is it that the B&W engine cuts the use of 
> > yellow?  If you then print a B&W/Sepia/heavily toned image as a 
> > colour file this is back in?  What about images where they are 
fully 
> > B&W but for a tiny detail in colour.  I do this a lot and it has 
been 
> > the bane of my life as I can't use my UT inkset - I have to use 
the 
> > colour set and it's naff.  Would appreciate your comments, i 
don't 
> > know the system very well.....
> > 
> > Steve.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > With Septone, keep in mind that you would have to dedicate a 2200 
to 
> > B&W only and the cartridges are approx twice the cost of the 
standard 
> > Epson cartridges.
> > > 
> > > Just a couple of thoughts....
> > > 
> > > Alan Huntley
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > From: "neilsphoto" <neilsphoto@y...>
> > > > Date: 2003/11/10 Mon AM 09:14:41 EST
> > > > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [Digital BW] Image Print vs Septone
> > > > 
> > > > A simple question w/o a simple answer.  I print 90% B&W and 
have 
> > been 
> > > > happy with matte black ink on matte paper in my 2200.   Very 
near 
> > neutral 
> > > > prints except for when I get window light on them.   Nothing 
new 
> > here.
> > > > 
> > > > So between those 2 options which to choose.  Leave price out 
for 
> > now.  One 
> > > > uses OE ink so clogging etc should not be any more of a 
problem 
> > than 
> > > > normal. 
> > > >  Problems with Septone ink?  Anyone know?  I can 2200 Ink at 
> > Staples Office 
> > > > stores. Another plus.   I think the closer I stay with OE  
Epson 
> > materials the 
> > > > better.  I want to print not tinker.
> > > > 
> > > > How about using the programs?   Easy to pick up or do you 
> > wonder "huh 
> > > > what?" too often.    I'm on OS X.
> > > > 
> > > > And they really really work?    Has IP really got no color 
shift 
> > using the same 
> > > > ink as Epson?   
> > > > 
> > > > All comments welcome, thanks
> > > > 
> > > > Neil
> > 
> > 
> > 
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