Digital BW, The Print

Roy,

That worked just fine.  I dropped Eboni out of the UT1 mix and made 
curves using just C, LC, and Y grays for the carbon-warm curve and 
added M and LM toners for a cool curve, on Epson Photo Paper.  Just 
kept the ink limits all at 100, partitioned the grays as usual, and 
linearized.  Below is a plot of the densities for a 50% blend of the 
warm and cool curves.  I made a neutral and warm print of a test image 
with these curves and they look great with no rub-off, bronzing, or 
gloss differential problems.  The prints have a beautiful, uniform, 
soft gloss and the 1.9+ dmax on plain old epson photo paper isn't too 
shabby.  So, "K-less" printing now for glossy papers?

Carl

Step	Density
0	 0.028	*
5	 0.075	**
10	 0.132	****
15	 0.188	*****
20	 0.247	*******
25	 0.293	********
30	 0.359	*********
35	 0.424	***********
40	 0.501	*************
45	 0.582	***************
50	 0.645	*****************
55	 0.742	*******************
60	 0.837	*********************
65	 0.918	***********************
70	 1.024	**************************
75	 1.133	*****************************
80	 1.265	********************************
85	 1.401	************************************
90	 1.533	***************************************
95	 1.703	*******************************************
100	 1.932	*************************************************

On Monday, January 19, 2004, at 08:40  PM, Roy Harrington wrote:

>
> Hi Carl,
>
> I just sent my post about leaving out Eboni.  I'm thinking that once
> you drop eboni from the mix you may actually be able to use the
> toner.
>
> Roy
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield 
> <scho@m...>
> wrote:
>> Paul,
>>
>> You are right about the toner limitation for glossy with the UT1 inks
>> and I have some UT2 inks on order from MIS, but I just wanted to see
>> how this worked with the UT1 inks since I still have them loaded in 
>> the
>> 1270.  I did get somewhat higher dmax with Epson Pro Glossy (1.76) and
>> even better with Ilford Smooth Pearl (2.04), using the same 92% curve
>> limit at 100%.  However, when I printed a QTR warm curve (no toner) on
>> the Pro Glossy the dmax dropped to 1.59 and the print showed bronzing
>> and gloss differential as well.
>>
>> Carl
>> On Monday, January 19, 2004, at 04:05  PM, Paul Roark wrote:
>>
>>> Carl,
>>>
>>> The problem with this Eboni-glossy printing approach and the UT1 is 
>>> the
>>> light toner.  In UT2 the coolness comes from an ink that is actually 
>>> a
>>> hair
>>> darker than the UT1 cyan.  That accounts for the dmax differences, I
>>> assume.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>> www.PaulRoark.com
>>> _____________________________________
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Carl Schofield [mailto:scho@m...]
>>> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 12:50 PM
>>> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Glossy printing with Eboni -- who 
>>> needs a
>>> 4000?
>>>
>>> Roy & Paul,
>>>
>>> I tried the UT1 inks with Eboni K in my 1270 using a neutral curve in
>>> QTR and printed to Epson Photo Paper.  The Eboni rubbed off and 
>>> showed
>>> a gloss differential only in the 100% patch.  However, by applying a
>>> curve adjustment layer and limiting output at 100% I was able to get
>>> rid of the rub-off and gloss differential.  The "optimal" 100% output
>>> limit in terms of dmax was at 92% and there was no rub-off or gloss
>>> differential.  Print looked great with no bronzing either.  Dmax
>>> numbers (see chart below) were not that great but the blacks still
>>> looked good.  I did no spraying with Print Shield for these tests.  I
>>> wonder if more C position gray ink were laid down under the Eboni if
>>> dmax would be higher.  Roy, could this be accomplished with a higher
>>> GRAY-OVERLAP?  I was using 10%.
>>>
>>> Carl
>>>
>>> Curves 100% Ouput	D
>>> 90	1.64
>>> 91	1.64
>>> 92	1.65
>>> 93	1.631
>>> 94	1.614
>>> 95	1.609
>>> On Monday, January 19, 2004, at 02:42  PM, Roy Harrington wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Paul,
>>>>
>>>> I'm curious just what you've got here.  Is it that this one specific
>>>> paper Smooth Pearl is somehow compatible with Eboni but
>>>> others aren't?    Or are you just not using the Eboni ink by making
>>>> the 100% spot just 100% R and G and 0% B -- i.e. the dark warm
>>>> gray and dark cool gray inks are enough to give a great dMax.
>>>>
>>>> Roy
>>>>
>>>> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
>>>> <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
>>>>> OK, this is a little half-baked, but the bottom line is that I've 
>>>>> hit
>>>>> a dmax
>>>>> of 2.28 on Ilford Galerie Smooth Pearl - with Eboni.  There is not
>>>>> significant dusting or rub-off.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The secret is that the UT2 (and perhaps UT1) inks use a base that 
>>>>> is
>>>>> the
>>>>> glossy binder.  It's not an acrylic coating on the particle.  So, I
>>>>> don't
>>>>> let Eboni sit there by itself - or barely at all.  So, to the 
>>>>> extent
>>>>> there
>>>>> is Eboni there, it is held by the base that carried the other inks
>>>>> into that
>>>>> spot.  The best dmax so far is with the yellow position sepia toner
>>>>> pulled
>>>>> out entirely at the 100% spot.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Whether I can write full curves for this is untested.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So, there is more to do here before declaring any kind of victory,
>>>>> but we
>>>>> may not need to mess with switching blacks any more.  Now that 
>>>>> would
>>>>> be
>>>>> nice.
>>>>>