Digital BW, The Print

Hello Paul and Shilesh,

I just came from Inkjetmall and this link shows the ink densities 
graphically.

http://www.inkjetmall.com/store/bw/icc-positions.html

It looks just like the FSN ink densities from MIS. That inkset worked 
just fine with the Epson driver using curves, and also with the 
PiezographyBW software driver I purchased from Inkjetmall. Frm some 
posts I've read here and elsewhere, I shouln't have gotten the same 
results. Thoughts?

Your friend in photography,

Johnny Eades


P.S> I think I send an empty message to the list. OOOOOPS!!!!!





--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Shilesh Jani" 
<shilesh.jani@s...> wrote:
> Paul,
> 
> You are right about the new Piezo ICC ink order.  I filled one 1280 
> cartridge with FS inks in that order, and was very quickly able to 
> create a grayscale adjustment curve to linearize a 21 step ramp.  
The 
> wedge was smoth and certainly no dots. So, the new Piezo ICC inks 
> likely can be used very easily with the Epson driver, without 
having 
> to resort to ICC profiles or a partitioned workflow.
> 
> My understanding of the FS-E inks was that LC=1/3C and LM=1/3M.  It 
> is, therfore a true "hextone" inkset (overkill, IMHO), rather than 
a 
> quadtone inkset used for hextone printers.
> 
> Regards.
> 
> Shilesh 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
> <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > Johnny,
> > 
> > >Paul, Thanks for jumping in with your always welcomed input. 
> > >I do have on hand the MIS FSN-Epson driver inkset bulk inks.
> > 
> > The original FSN is being upgraded to a UT-FSN, which is far more 
> lightfast
> > and also glossy paper compatible.
> > 
> > > I did receive the cartridges from inkjet mall today. 
> > >I think I'll put them in and see what the Epson driver can do 
with 
> them. 
> > >I still have some curves for the FSN inks, so I may try them.
> > 
> > The MIS FS-E light cyan may be darker than the Piezo/ICC setup.
> > 
> > > I hesitate to do this before getting the ICC profiles 
> > >(currently on backorder).
> > 
> > Sure, don't use up your inks before trying the new system.
> > 
> > In the new Piezo system the ink order is, I believe, as follows, 
> relative to
> > the old quad Piezo inks:  C = C, LC = M, M = M, LM = Y, Y = Y.  
The 
> main
> > difference from the FS-E may be that the FS-E used a darker LC.  
> (The gap
> > between Piezo C and M is very large.)  The bottom line is that 
the 
> old MIS
> > FS-E curves may not be quite correct for the Piezo/ICC ink order.
> > 
> > >The whole set of FSN inks cost less than the two cartridges from
> > >Inkjetmall, and that adds to my hesitation. 
> > 
> > Cost is an issue.
> > 
> > >If you have any ideas on using the Piezotone inks with 
> > >PS and applying curves, I'd appreciate any comments.
> > 
> > The ICC system should work very well.
> > 
> > If I were designing a hextone monotone inkset for the 1280, 
> however, I would
> > not use so many light inks.  The Piezo yellow, for example, was 
> needed to
> > tame the old 3000.  In a 1280 I think it is lighter than 
> necessary.  Having
> > 2 inks of that density is, well, expensive water and a waste of 
the
> > printer's capabilities.  In a 1280, in fact, the M density is 
light 
> enough
> > to carry the highlights and be very smooth.
> > 
> > (Note that in the UT2 system, the dark midtones are both close to 
> the Piezo
> > C density.  This is one reason the inkset can print on glossy 
paper 
> with a
> > good dmax without the need for a Photo black -- a very nice 
feature 
> that
> > 7600 and 9600 owners are especially going to appreciate.)
> > 
> > At any rate, if I were to write curves for the 1280 and the 
> Piezo/ICC ink
> > order, I might ignore the yellow-position ink (blue curve) for the
> > highlights and just use it at the very end to turn on the black 
> ink.  At
> > most I might pull it down initially until about 10% and then turn 
> if off
> > until the black needed to be used.  I'd treat the M ink (green 
> curve) as the
> > main light ink.  Even that one would not be pulled on more than 
> half way
> > until the very end.  I'd probably let it go fairly flat in the 
> middle.  The
> > C ink (red curve) is where the midtone action is.  Even this one 
> could start
> > at the white point and stay at a low slope until the green curve 
> started to
> > level off.
> > 
> > I don't see me doing any curves for this inkset because it's not 
> the way I
> > would do things to start with.  I think the inkset has too much 
> light ink in
> > it and is too limited in its flexibility -- non-variable tones 
and 
> not
> > glossy compatible.  Frankly, I've been curious what an ICC 
approach 
> could do
> > with the UT2 inkset.
> > 
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com 
> > 
> > For UT2 information, curves, and settings see:
> > http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/ 
> > 
> > __________________________________
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
> > <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > > 
> > > >The ICC profiles are specific to the piezotone ink sets and 
> > therefore it is
> > > >quite unlikely that they will suit other manufacturers inks.
> > > 
> > > MIS FS inks are the same densities.  So I suspect the MIS FS 
> series 
> > inks
> > > would work fine as long as one makes sure the inks are in the 
> > correct
> > > positions.  The new Cone ink position is similar to (but maybe 
> not 
> > exactly
> > > the same as) what MIS marketed a few years ago as the FS-E 
> > inksets.  The
> > > original Piezo hextone arrangement was not consistent with the 
> > Epson driver
> > > because it used the same density inks in the light and dark 
> > positions of the
> > > M & C spots.  With both the MIS FS-E and new Piezo ICC 
> arrangement, 
> > the idea
> > > is to allow the Epson driver crossovers to work -- because 
Epson 
> > does an
> > > excellent job of it.  
> > > 
> > > Paul
> > > www.PaulRoark.com 
> > > 
> > > For UT2 information, curves, and settings see:
> > > http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/ 
> > > 
> > > ____________________
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Johnny Eades [mailto:jeades1@s...] 
> > > Sent: 24 February 2004 02:40
> > > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [Digital BW] Curves for Epson 1280 and Piezotone inks
> > > 
> > > I currently use BO printing after ordering the PiezographyBW 
> > software 
> > > and the MIS Full Spectrum Neutral inkset. I am receiving the 
> > upgrade 
> > > to PiezoICC profiles and have ordered the matching Piezotone 
> > inkset. 
> > > 
> > > 
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