Digital BW, The Print

Charlie, could you please be a little more specific about the coated papers
you mention?  I have a fair stock of Cranes #32 pound kid finish.  My only
printer currently is an Epson 2200, where you can vary the ink load.   I
have thought about gravures, but then you have to make a plate. 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Susan Dennis [mailto:scprints@...] 
> Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 8:54 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: Digital Negatives
> 
> Chris,
> 
> My favorite way to print is to use 100% cotton content bond 
> paper, like a Strathmore bond in 24# weight. You have to 
> watch how much ink you are putting down but you get a very 
> fine delicate print. It is more like a gravure. Like the ones 
> that Edward Curtis made in the early part of this century on 
> fine Japanese tissue paper and the vellums. They were all 
> hand pulled and very fine. I have collected originals of his 
> over the years.
> Printing with the Epson 3000 and the quad ink set comes the 
> closest to those fine prints I have been able to produce. I 
> differ in that I am using neutral tone inks B&W and not his 
> red sepia tones. That color does not work for my material. 
> Fine printing is just that, fine printing and there are many 
> ways to achieve a desired result. The accepted pattern of 
> workflow methods and materials is not the only way to achieve 
> an artist goal.  These cotton bonds do not have the chemical 
> coatings of the offset sheets that make the blacks soft and 
> gray in the shadow areas. Coated commercial printing papers 
> do not work at all with inkjet inks. But there are a few 
> commercial matte coated papers that do take the ink properly 
> and come in a variety of weights. They are considerably 
> cheaper and readily available through paper merchants. At the 
> very least they are a good way to proof images with out 
> wasting the expensive papers. If you are talking glossy 
> finish, that is another ball game. Only papers made 
> specifically for ink-jet printers will do.
> 
> Charlie Dennis
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: Chris Hargens [mailto:chargens@...]
>   Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 7:10 PM
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>   Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Digital Negatives
> 
> 
>   Thanks, Charlie, for all the information. I agree with all 
> the points
>   you've made as well as the theory behind them. As for the 
> prints I've
>   been making with various quadtone sets on matte paper so far, I'm
>   reasonably happy with some and unhappy with others. I like the look
>   of the Ultrachromes when printing BW, but I don't like the problem
>   with metamerism (as well as the slight bronzing when printing on
>   glossy papers).
> 
>   Chris Hargens
> 
>   --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, 
> "Charlie Dennis"
>   <scprints@b...> wrote:
>   > Chris,
>   >
>   > Just a few things you should consider when making your negs for
>   prints in
>   > the way that you want, on your printer.
>   >
>   > Sorry these are so long.
>   >
>   > 1. any problems that you have making ink prints on your printer
>   will also
>   > hold true for making a neg off the same device. It will be no
>   better than
>   > the prints you make. Anything that can and does happen to your
>   prints will
>   > happen to the negative plus the time you will spend in 
> the darkroom
>   finding
>   > out if the negative is any good.
>   >
>   > 2. Making a negative in a printer is an additive process to a
>   substrate. It
>   > is not an exposure process to a coated material and then 
> applying a
>   > subtractive process that is both chemical and physical.
>   >
>   > 3. The image on the negative produced by the image setter is
>   controlled by a
>   > high end laser that is calibrated and tested every day 
> for accuracy
>   and
>   > consistency
>   >
>   > 4. The dots or random spot of the image setter can be 
> much finer in
>   its
>   > resolution than anything that a printer will be capable of
>   producing. The
>   > spot it produces can be the equivalent of a 600 line per inch
>   screen value.
>   > That is a spot smaller than the size of the silver crystals in the
>   film you
>   > use in your camera.
>   >
>   > 5. Control and consistency on the negative is a standard operating
>   procedure
>   > of the process when the image bureau creates a film that is
>   readable with a
>   > target chart and densiotometer.
>   >
>   > 6. There will be no blocking of values at either end of the scale
>   of the
>   > image setter neg. It will have more information than your printing
>   paper
>   > will be able to record.
>   >
>   > 7. You will be less at the mercy of inconsistent neg. because of
>   density
>   > problems and clogged heads of a print device with an image setter.
>   >
>   > 8. If you inkjet prints are lacking in the snap that you 
> want, then
>   the
>   > negative you create on it will more than likely lack something
>   also. The
>   > fact that you are printing to a silver print paper will not solve
>   all that
>   > you are looking for in the print. If the print is flat 
> the negative
>   will
>   > also be flat produced in the same way.
>   >
>   > I for one have never been a fan of any additive process. It has
>   never proven
>   > to be as consistent and accurate as a subtractive system in
>   reproduction. In
>   > the graphic arts industry, system after system of additive
>   processes has
>   > been dropped or revised always in favor of the easier to control
>   subtractive
>   > and exposure systems.
>   >
>   > I am not saying the negative from a printer will not work or will
>   not be
>   > usable, but it will depend on the investment of your time and
>   testing you
>   > put into it. The shorter way will be the image setter if you are a
>   > perfectionist for technical detail.
>   >
>   > I would be pleased to see how your efforts turn out. If you have a
>   > densitometer to read both reflective and transmission 
> values of the
>   print
>   > and negatives you will make your life a lot easier when making
>   adjustments
>   > to your finished work.
>   >   Charlie Dennis
>   >    -----Original Message-----
>   >   From: Chris Hargens [mailto:chargens@s...]
>   >   Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 10:06 AM
>   >   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>   >   Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Digital Negatives
>   >
>   >
>   >   Thanks, Randy and Charles, for your advice. If I go the digital
>   >   negative route, I'll be using my 2200 to make them. According to
>   >   Burkholder the 2200, along with the 7600/9600, "gives the best
>   negs
>   >   on the desktop yet." I've read that for silver printing, as
>   opposed
>   >   to platinum, imagesetter negatives are superior to those from
>   inkjet
>   >   printers, but I haven't heard anything to suggest that inkjet
>   >   negatives noticeably lower in quality.
>   >
>   >   Chris Hargens
>   >
>   >
>   >
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> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE 
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> YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, 
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