Digital BW, The Print

John,

I am not the source of your quote, but I have been very interested in
"lightly selenium toned, fiber-based silver print" longevity because that is
what I did for years, and it is held out as the ultimate, whether true or
not.

Here are a few things I've read or learned on the subject.

From RIT, it appears that the 1:19 selenium toning most of us were doing,
based on Kodak's recommendations and reiterated in Adams' books, was not
adequate to fully protect the silver from oxidation and gas attack.
Oxidized silver apparently becomes transparent, so the image fades.  The
typical "toned" silver print is, it turns out, only partially toned.

I have read somewhere that an un-toned silver print would be rated at only
about "150 years" of display.  I have not seen what I consider a good test
on this subject, however.  On the other hand, I've seen writers blithely
state that a toned silver print will last for a millennium (citing no tests,
of course).

Several years ago I stuck a typical "partially toned" silver print in my
fader and, while there was some detectable yellowing (they do/did use
brighteners, I think) the image was rock solid.  The test was not long
enough to tell much about the silver print, being aimed at the old pigments.
However, I concluded from it that they were way ahead of the last generation
of ink (old PiezoBW and MIS VM).  I might try again with the UT8 formula
neutral (new toner) and more modern carbon.  However, this won't happen for
some months at least.

With respect to long term storage, the fiber-based silver prints are subject
to acid attack.  RIT's apparent findings and my personal experience indicate
that the un-buffered paper is easily attacked with acids.  Once an acidic
chain reaction starts, I think buffers are needed to stop it.  So, for
example, fiber prints of mine that were stored for about 15 years in a metal
cabinet that also contained cheaper paper (I suspect file folders) tested as
acidic with the Abbey acid test pen.  There was visible yellowing of the
paper when viewed from the back.  The yellowing was more around the edges,
less in the centers.  That is, it was rather obvious that the acids were
diffusing in from the edges.

I know of no accepted remedy for this, but based on what I've read in the
library conservation field, I've found that ammonia gas will mop up the
acids, though it does not leave a buffer behind in the paper for future
protection.  So, I put a test print in a bag with a cap of ammonia for 15
minutes.  After that it tested as neutral.  Hanging my darkroom, it has
stayed neutral. 

I think the lesson in this is to store fiber prints with buffered
interleaving against the back paper.  I suspect buffered mat board is also
effective.  So, I'm really not worried about my dry mounted silver prints.
(I would not use Wei T'o deacidification spray on a silver print.)

At any rate, these are the main issues that come to mind.  While I think we
have already beat the silver print with respect to long term dark storage
(because we can use buffered cotton paper), with respect to lightfastness I
still consider the fiber print as the standard and my target.  I will
continue to look for ways to improve the inks at least until I can produce a
print that will equal or exceed that standard.  I doubt we're there yet --
but getting close.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
_____________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: john dean [mailto:deanwork2003@...] 
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 6:03 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Current Fade Data of Gelatin Silver Fiber Prints?

I have run across a couple of postings here where people 
refered to the "new revelations about silver print longevity".

Where can I read this published information? I'm just curious 
and am putting together a file of technical information on 
contemporary printmaking.

I have never heard this before visiting this site. I know Wilhelm 
told everyone years ago to  "avoid at all cost" black and white RC 
meda, primarily because of the quick fix and washing via 
automated processors assiciated with commercial output . But 
I've always known that rc black and white was never designed for 
permanence but rather speed. LIke the old saying, " are black 
and white rc papers archival" - answer " God, I hope not"

But I never knew there was new data about carefully processed , 
washed and toned silver prints. Interesting. 




Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
 
Yahoo! Groups Links