Digital BW, The Print

I have recently tried the MIS neutral EZ BW inks with 2 C84 printers
using Epson Premium Glossy.
Positives: No metamerism, mild banding on one printer, none on the
other, no significant "dots"
Negative: The prints were unequivocally "too light" in a substantial
portion of the tonal range vs a well calibrated monitor and therefore
 did not match the quality of the R800- although that printer suffers
from metmerism on BW. No adjustments of the sliders could overcome
this.  I am in the process of making a profile as directed by Paul
Roark to correct this. Therefore, at least  for EPG paper, there is
more to it . Finally, I can't be sure how many prints per cartridge
yet, but it may also be $$ as the MIS black looks to be 1/2 the size
of the Epson black. 

   Are your prints on matte paper too light ?  

                Stuart

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Kip Babington
<cbabing3@s...> wrote:
> Jim -
> 
> I mentioned in a reply to another of your queries that I am using the 
> C84/EZ setup.  Frankly, I do the same things to prepare an image for 
> printing with that combination that I do to prepare an image to
print on my 
> Canon S9000 with Lyson Quad Black inks - crop, adjust levels for
brightness 
> range, desaturate and adjust tonal balance using Convert BW Pro, and 
> eventually print using QImage.  In the MIS ink world, though,
several of 
> their monochrome ink sets are variable tone, in that you can control
the 
> tone of the print (from cool to warm) by applying appropriate curves
to the 
> image after "processing" and just before printing.  You can't do
that with 
> the EZ inks - they is what they is, so you just send an image to the 
> printer and let 'er rip (no pun intended.)  In that sense it's
simpler than 
> using other MIS inks.
> 
> So what you give up is the ability to vary the tone of a particular 
> image.  Be aware, though, that you do have quite a bit of control
over the 
> warmth of the ink set itself - you just get the same tone for all your 
> prints once you've settled on the tone you want.  The EZ ink family 
> actually has four different inks, two of which are used in the
printer at a 
> time.  There are two different blacks, one for matte papers (Eboni)
and one 
> for glossy papers (Photo Black, I think it's called - I've never used 
> it.)  Then there are two gray inks, neutral and warm.  The C, M and Y 
> cartridges all have the same density of gray ink - the density of
the image 
> is dependent on how heavily the gray is laid down.  In the simplest 
> application, all of the color ink positions have the same gray ink
in them 
> (either neutral or warm,) while the black position has the appropriate 
> black (apparently the gray inks will work on both matte and glossy 
> surfaces.)  However, Paul Roark, who developed (or at least helped to 
> develop) the EZ inks has indicated that you can actually vary the
tone of 
> the final print between neutral and warm by using warm ink in one or
more 
> of the gray positions.  Warm in the Y position adds just a bit of 
> warmth.  Warm in the M position (with neutral in C and Y) is a bit
warmer, 
> while warm in M and Y is warmer still. ( I didn't try warm in the C 
> position only.)  None of these combinations is nearly as warm as
warm ink 
> in all three, C, M and Y, positions.
> 
> I bought two sets of EZ cartridges for the C84 and experimented with
this 
> mix and match process.  I found the all-warm setup to be too warm
for my 
> tastes, but after a little experimenting decided that the tone I
liked best 
> (on Epson Enhanced Matte paper) was neutral C and Y with warm M, and
I have 
> set up a CIS this way.  Note though that this is very paper
dependent.  The 
> same image printed on Ilford Smooth Heavyweight Matte paper looks
warmer 
> (and slightly redder) than on Ilford Enhanced Matte, although part
of that 
> may be due to the fact that the Ilford paper is itself much whiter
than the 
> Epson.
> 
> I've had a lot of fun experimenting with the C84/EZ combination. 
The C84 
> is still a bargain printer, and might get to be even more so if the
C86 is 
> supposed to be a replacement for it.  Refilling MIS cartridges makes
for 
> cheap printing, and is a pretty simple process (although there is
the need 
> to reset the computer chip on the cartridge - itself a pretty simple
step 
> but something you don't think about with a Canon) since they're the
same 
> sponge-in-front/reservoir-in-back layout as the Canon cartridges.  The 
> refilling will be even simpler when the transparent virgin empties
actually 
> arrive (promised "real soon now" on their site) because you'll be
able to 
> see when you're getting near full, and they'll have a built in hole
for a 
> stopper (I use a 2x56 brass screw to seal the hole I drilled in the 
> cartridges I played with.)  With the opaque cartridges you fill the 
> reservoir until it overflows, which is a slightly messy process. 
Filling 
> your own cartridges would also allow fairly simple variation in tone by 
> just switching a neutral or warm cartridge or two - the ink path from 
> cartridge to print head seems to be very short, so there wouldn't be
a lot 
> of ink to purge after a cartridge switch.
> 
> Another attraction of the C84/EZ combination is the ability to
experiment 
> with black-only printing.  You give up a bit of resolution but get back 
> quite a bit of speed, and with Eboni ink on Epson Enhanced Matte I have 
> gotten some simply stunning tonalities out of certain images.  It's
easy to 
> play with - just select black only in the print driver.  (Here again, 
> though, image tone is affected by paper choice - Epson Enhanced
Matte is 
> substantially warmer, for example, than Legion Matte, which itself
is a bit 
> warmer than Ilford Heavyweight Matte.)
> 
> So if you find yourself tempted by the C84, I'd say give it a try.  I 
> suspect you'll like it, and if you don't you can probably sell it on
Ebay 
> for at least half what you paid for it (keep the box and packing
materials, 
> just in case it doesn't work out  ;-)
> 
> Cheers,
> Kip
> 
> At 9/1/2004 03:59 AM +0000, you wrote:
> >They say you can't get something for nothing, so if using the MIS EZ
> >Ultratones in an Epson C84 means you don't have to use photoshop
> >curves, don't have to use a RIP, don't have to do
> >anything "special," what would I be giving up for all this ease?
> >Sounds too good to be true, so the cynic in me (and chasing the B&W
> >printing grail does tend to bring that out in us), what letdown am I
> >in for? [For background, I'm an experienced wet darkroom guy. I use
> >Monaco EZ color to get reasonably neutral B&W prints out of a Canon
> >s900 on a variety of papers (not easy and not consistently either).
> >And I'm a cheapskate, so saying "Buy a 2200" won't work on me.] I
> >like the color I get from my Canon, so I'm looking to add a
> >dedicated B&W printer to the mix.
> >Thanks,