Yahoo Groups archive

Digital BW, The Print

Index last updated: 2026-04-28 22:56 UTC

Message

Re: [Digital BW] How reliable/ precise is your b&w print workflow?

2004-10-16 by David B. Brooks

Steve,

I agree with your first sentence without reservation. However printing black
& white is not limited to a “same as” workflow. There is no reason a user
cannot convert grayscale to RGB and thereby make the workflow process
amenable to the same controls as color. Several B&W (black ink) options
employ some aspect of this strategy. For instance the MIS/Paul Roark option
is a simple one which, although it requires using a “same as” CMS profile
setting in Photoshop,  also involves a print driver setting of “no color
adjustment” .  This allows the use of RGB curve files applied to the open
image which in a broad sense functions in lieu of a profile selection in
PrintSpace, providing data going to the printer altered to linearize the
application of CcMmY ink position output.

Ideally it is technically and theoretically possible to fully utilize color
management and profiles to control B&W printing with black inks. What is
missing for users are two software components. The first is a way to drive
the printer to reproduce a standard grayscale image that would output a
print with a set of recordings resulting from that graysscale reflecting the
ink application performance for each printer ink channel.  Then the second
step would be to “read” the densities from the test chart print. This can be
accomplished with either a flatbed scanner which has the support to output
raw data, or with a photospectrometer. The key piece of need software would
allow inputting the density data read from the chart to be used to write a
profile applying preset algorithms to match ideal aim-points to control the
ink application for each ink color channel.

Obviously a user B&W calibration and profiling capability will require a
significant investment in R&D, as well as programming and marketing to bring
these utilities to market. That will happen when the potential market is
adequately recognized in size potential by those in the industry who have
the capability to take the risks to undertake this challenge. From my
perspective there are many times more photographers already with a foot in
digital who have an interest in a B&W capability (if it is reasonably easy
and affordable), than there are among those already involved and using some
kind of currently available B&W printing option.

Regards, David B. Brooks
Shutterbug Magazine
E-mail: fotografx@...

  



On 10/15/04 11:30 AM, "Steve Kale" <stevekale@...> wrote:

> You should be colour calibrated anyway - it is the only way to have a
> colour-managed workflow. But since B&W is largely at the moment a Same As
> Source workflow rather than a colour managed one the only real way to get
> output that matches the what you see on screen with B&W is to use a
> soft-proofing workflow such as the one developed by Carl.  Of course for
> this to work you need to be colour calibrated but one without the other is
> not enough.
> 
> 
>> > From: "David B. Brooks" <fotografx@...>
>> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
>> > Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:49:44 -0700
>> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
>> > Cc: <albatros-@...>
>> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] How reliable/ precise is your b&w print workflow?
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > Bernie,
>> > 
>> > May I suggest that ³color management² and monitor calibration and
>> profiling
>> > could at least reduce the discrepancy between what you see on-screen and
>> > what you obtain in a print even though you are working with grayscale and
>> > not color.  I have jumped in here in part because I was just delivered
>> > ColorVision¹s new Spyder2Pro colorimeter and software, and the resulting
>> > calibration and profiling I am now obtaining is amazingly well-matched and
>> > the screen gray is at a neutral balance I¹ve not seen before. And may I
>> also
>> > suggest that with an LCD flat panel, its grater brightness range compared
>> to
>> > a CRT, makes it that much more difficult to obtain screen matching in
>> prints
>> > as there is an inherent gamma discrepancy. CRT¹s are much closer in
>> > brightness range and apparent gamma effect to a print density range.
>> > 
>> > Regards, David B. Brooks
>> > Shutterbug Magazine
>> > E-mail: fotografx@mindspring.com
>> > 
>> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership
> without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the
> membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
> Moderators. See ?roup Topic, Rules and Guidelines? in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE ?WNER? AND
> ?ODERATORS? OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL,
> USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  ?WNER? AND ?ODERATORS? OF
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH
> DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW,
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR
> TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>  
>  ADVERTISEMENT
>  
> <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129jtre6n/M=315388.5497957.6576270.3001176/D=grou
> ps/S=1705019182:HM/EXP=1097951464/A=2372354/R=0/SIG=12id813k2/*https://www.orc
> hardbank.com/hcs/hcsapplication?pf=PLApply&media=EMYHNL40F21004SS>
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> * http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/
> *  
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> * DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsub
> scribe> 
> *  
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
> 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Attachments

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.