Digital BW, The Print

Hi Daniel,

Thanks for that. In the end, I actually bypassed everything and did raw scans,
which I then inverted in Photoshop to eliminate any possibility of the scan
software (either VueScan or DiMAGE Scan) interfering with things. They still
looked hard compared to the LS-30, and very hard put next to the creamy (but
soft) output I got from the Epson Perfection 3200. I do take your point about
the grain looking more prominent when the contrast is high -- I noticed that
if I used curves to make the 5400 scans match the Epson scans, the grain would
calm down a great deal too. I have also had good results with Neat Image.
Ultimately, all these things are workarounds however. What I'd really like is
a scanner with the smooth, low-contrast tonality of the Epson flatbed, and the
resolving power of the Minolta. Maybe one day!

Best,

-= mike =-

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Staver [mailto:daniel@...] 
Sent: 19 October 2004 12:32
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Film Scanners


Make sure you set the highlight and shadow values very low in Vuescan,
otherwise the contrast will be hard. When I had the Minolta I would use
0.0001 for both values and 'White balance' for the color mode. My scans would
come out very flat, retaining all detail in shadows and highlights. Then I
could increase the contrast in Photoshop with the curve tools to my liking.

As for grain I haven't noticed that big a difference in how different scanner
models will scan grain. My two previous scanners were the Canon FS4000US and
the Minolta 5400, and now I have a Microtek Artixscan 120tf. The grain from
all of them looks very similar - assuming I adjust the contrast in the images
from the different scanners to match as closely as possible.

Contrast will always make a big impact in how you see the grain, so it's
important not to compare a contrasty image from one scanner to a flat image
from another, as the former will always look more grainy than the latter.

Edge to edge sharpness is an issue with the Minolta 5400 though. It can be
difficult to get sharp scans if the film is even a little bit curved. 
Actually this appears to be a problem with most film scanners and I would
recommed getting one that supports a glass holder to keep the film perfectly
flat. This will also allow you to play with fluid mounting which can be a good
way to smooth out the grain structure in many films.

I've found that the latest versions of Neatimage has become very good at
reducing grain in high resolution film scans. Of course, if you use too much
noise reduction the image will look artificial and plasticky, but if you're
conservative you get to keep the grain structure of the film while reducing it
to less objectionable amounts. Noise reduction values of 20-30% seems good for
4000dpi film scans of 400iso BW films.

This can also be a good way to counter grain enhancing effects when sharpening
an image. If you reduce noise first and then sharpen you end up with a much
less grainy image than if you just sharpen directly, which can easily increase
the grain to unacceptable amounts.

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no

> Thanks for the suggestion, but I have already given it a go, and I 
> still see similar results. I'm pretty much convinced it's the light 
> source. As I mentioned, it's possible to correct matters somewhat 
> using curves, but that can have a deleterious effect on image 
> quality. I think the "problem" is with the raw data coming off the 
> sensor, not in the post-processing. I'm not trying to suggest that 
> B&W shooters should avoid this scanner, just that it's worth checking
>  out some scans before putting your money down, as it may not provide
>  you with the results you want.





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