Digital BW, The Print

Mike

Go use the Imacon at Calumet in Drummond Street, NW1.  You can rent it by
the hour.  I would be interested in what you think....

Steve


> From: "Nunan, Mike" <mike.nunan@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:12:30 +0100
> To: "'DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com'"
> <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: Film Scanners
> 
> 
> Hi Daniel,
> 
> Thanks for that. In the end, I actually bypassed everything and did raw scans,
> which I then inverted in Photoshop to eliminate any possibility of the scan
> software (either VueScan or DiMAGE Scan) interfering with things. They still
> looked hard compared to the LS-30, and very hard put next to the creamy (but
> soft) output I got from the Epson Perfection 3200. I do take your point about
> the grain looking more prominent when the contrast is high -- I noticed that
> if I used curves to make the 5400 scans match the Epson scans, the grain would
> calm down a great deal too. I have also had good results with Neat Image.
> Ultimately, all these things are workarounds however. What I'd really like is
> a scanner with the smooth, low-contrast tonality of the Epson flatbed, and the
> resolving power of the Minolta. Maybe one day!
> 
> Best,
> 
> -= mike =-
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daniel Staver [mailto:daniel@...]
> Sent: 19 October 2004 12:32
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Film Scanners
> 
> 
> Make sure you set the highlight and shadow values very low in Vuescan,
> otherwise the contrast will be hard. When I had the Minolta I would use
> 0.0001 for both values and 'White balance' for the color mode. My scans would
> come out very flat, retaining all detail in shadows and highlights. Then I
> could increase the contrast in Photoshop with the curve tools to my liking.
> 
> As for grain I haven't noticed that big a difference in how different scanner
> models will scan grain. My two previous scanners were the Canon FS4000US and
> the Minolta 5400, and now I have a Microtek Artixscan 120tf. The grain from
> all of them looks very similar - assuming I adjust the contrast in the images
> from the different scanners to match as closely as possible.
> 
> Contrast will always make a big impact in how you see the grain, so it's
> important not to compare a contrasty image from one scanner to a flat image
> from another, as the former will always look more grainy than the latter.
> 
> Edge to edge sharpness is an issue with the Minolta 5400 though. It can be
> difficult to get sharp scans if the film is even a little bit curved.
> Actually this appears to be a problem with most film scanners and I would
> recommed getting one that supports a glass holder to keep the film perfectly
> flat. This will also allow you to play with fluid mounting which can be a good
> way to smooth out the grain structure in many films.
> 
> I've found that the latest versions of Neatimage has become very good at
> reducing grain in high resolution film scans. Of course, if you use too much
> noise reduction the image will look artificial and plasticky, but if you're
> conservative you get to keep the grain structure of the film while reducing it
> to less objectionable amounts. Noise reduction values of 20-30% seems good for
> 4000dpi film scans of 400iso BW films.
> 
> This can also be a good way to counter grain enhancing effects when sharpening
> an image. If you reduce noise first and then sharpen you end up with a much
> less grainy image than if you just sharpen directly, which can easily increase
> the grain to unacceptable amounts.
> 
> --
> Daniel Staver
> http://daniel.staver.no
> 
>> Thanks for the suggestion, but I have already given it a go, and I
>> still see similar results. I'm pretty much convinced it's the light
>> source. As I mentioned, it's possible to correct matters somewhat
>> using curves, but that can have a deleterious effect on image
>> quality. I think the "problem" is with the raw data coming off the
>> sensor, not in the post-processing. I'm not trying to suggest that
>> B&W shooters should avoid this scanner, just that it's worth checking
>>  out some scans before putting your money down, as it may not provide
>>  you with the results you want.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
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> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
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> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership
> without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the
> membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
> Moderators. See „Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines‰ in the Files section:
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> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE „OWNER‰ AND
> „MODERATORS‰ OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL,
> USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  „OWNER‰ AND „MODERATORS‰ OF
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH
> DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW,
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR
> TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
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