Digital BW, The Print

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
> Hi Tyler
> 
> 
> > From: Tyler Boley <tyler@t...>
> 
> 
> 
> > With the latest generation of
> > EyeOne and Colorvision products, I can see the difference between
> > level 0 and level 1, between level 1 and level 2, etc..
> 
> When you say Level 0, 1, 2 etc, what scale are you referring to?

Photoshop levels, 0 - 255.

...
> > There is a lack of consensus about what "linear" is,
> 
> Not meaning to not pick but I would have said that "linear" is
understood,
> but there can be debate as to at which gamma and between which points.

That's what I mean, not consensus about linear along what scale? Lab?
A grayscale space? Which one? RGB space? Which gamma? Density? What
dot gain?
And in fact it doesn't really matter, because if it's linear by some
standard, and I can characterize it and predict it, I can succeffuly
softproof and print to it.

...
> > Other than that the issues addressed in this thread,
> > regarding display characteristics, workingspace, output
> > characteristics, their differences, overcoming them one way or
> > another, can be dealt with.
> > Usually it involves color management in
> > some way, gotta get on top of that.
> > 
> 
> Yes they can be "dealt with".  But it is interesting that they
persist to
> begin with.

They have always persisted. Different B&W papers have difference
middle grays from the same neg even given the same highlight point and
shadow point. Film too. All devices, whether monitors, printers,
whatever, have their own characteristcs. Beyond that there are
manufacturing tolerances, monitor drift, etc..
I think it will always persist and dealing with it is part of what we do.

>...  We are in the unusual position of having a very narrow gamut to
> work in.  Our work is largely done in a straight single dimension (only
> toning takes us into the colour world).  The ultimate would, as you
say, be
> a colour managed world (without metamerism!) but that seems to be a way
> away.

Color management techniques are being used all the time, even with
monochromatic inks.

> Colour management developed to solve the problem of moving between
> devices with different colour gamut, and sophisticated mechanisms for
> dealing with different gammas and out of gamut colours were developed in
> parallel (else a profile would be useless).  The funny thing is, in
B&W we
> have chosen to work between two different colour/tonal spaces
without the
> benefit of a translation tool (colorsync) when we could easily make
the two
> tonal spaces the same and not have the issue to begin with!

Well, that's where we disagree.
Tyler