Digital BW, The Print

Frank,

About a week back Ron Landucci (Post #79) said essentially the same 
thing. He reported that he really couldn't see any difference between 
the desktop printers output and the 7000 under standard viewing 
conditions.

Martin

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., frank@c... wrote:
> Hi Paul,  It's good to find you on this list.  I wanted to tell you 
> about my friend's switch from 3000 to 7000.  His prints are great, 
but 
> when I compare the same file on each printer side by side (cone 
> system), I'm hard pressed to say the 7000 is significantly better.  
> Through a loup it looks tighter, but that 3000 has held it's own 
over 
> the years. 
> 
> Incidently, I just bought an 1160 and have not set it up yet for 
Piezo, 
> but I was disappointed to hear that you think the 3000 is superior. 
I 
> thought I was buying "state of the art" for Piezo work.  The 3000 
must 
> have the longest production run of any Epson printer.
> 
> Frank
> http://www.culturalvsions.com
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark" <
> paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > Todd,
> > 
> > I have not seen any direct, objective comparisons between the 
7000 and the
> > smaller-dot Epsons to know whether there is a visible 
difference.  The
> > prints and test strips I've seen from the 7000 using the Epson 
driver are
> > excellent, so I assume it will be visually equal to the others and
> > presumably better than the alternative for large prints -- the 
3000.  (I
> > assume no one would buy either of these unless you want to do 
large prints.
> > For me, the 16x20 has always been my target size, so I now have a 
3000 as
> > well as an 1160.)
> > 
> > I don't know how the dot sizes of the 3000 and 7000 compare, but 
I assume
> > the 7000 is smaller.  Additionally, the 7000 with the variable-
tone inkset
> > will be a true hextone -- which does make a small difference; 
more shades of
> > ink allow for smoother outputs.   (Note that the Piezo 7000 
inkset is really
> > just a quad -- 4 total shades, not 6.  The nozzle checks with 
Piezo ink
> > indicate that the light/photo shade inks are the same densities 
as the
> > others.  That is, the magenta and light/photo magenta are the 
same.)
> > 
> > As good as I expect the 7000 to be, I want to add that I've been 
pleasantly
> > surprised at the high quality of the 3000 output.  That printer 
has large
> > dots and a bad reputation for paper handling and banding 
(especially with
> > the Piezo driver).  In test strips using the variable-tone inkset 
I can see
> > some graininess, but in 16x20s, I don't see any evidence of it.  
My medium
> > format Tmax 100 negatives appear to be the limiting factors, not 
the 3000's
> > dots.  Using Archival Matte fed from the front, the printer feeds 
perfectly
> > and has no banding.  (I think it is actually better than my 
1160.)  (I have
> > a pre-release 24" roll of Archival Matte.  It'll be released next 
month by
> > Epson.)
> > 
> > You'll notice that for the 3000 I have two "NC" (neutral-cool) 
curves.  What
> > I found is that different curves produce dots at different 
places.  Contrary
> > to my expectations, the dots are not visible in the highlights 
(where the
> > Epson ink in the 3000 shows bad dots).  Rather, the dots show up 
in the
> > midtones or dark tones.  On most of the curves, the dots are so 
mild as to
> > be irrelevant.  With the NC curves, however, I decided to make 
two versions
> > so that if the dots do show in a print, the other curve can be 
used and the
> > dots may then be in a place where they will not show.
> > 
> > So, to get back to the 7000, I expect it will be a great printer 
with the
> > variable-tone inkset.  However, if one can't afford the 7000, and 
if you can
> > live with paper thin enough to feed from the front, I would not 
hesitate to
> > buy a 3000.  For 16x20s it is the cheap way to go, and my 16x20 
Archival
> > Matte prints look great.  (I may need to remove a pizza wheel, 
but I haven't
> > bothered yet.)
> > 
> > Paul
> > http://www.PaulRoark.com
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   -----Original Message-----
> >   From: Todd Flashner [mailto:tflash@e...]
> >   Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 10:20 PM
> >   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...
> >   Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Greetings
> > 
> > 
> >   Welcome back Paul. Alaska Huh? Lucky boy.
> > 
> >   Looks like MIS is up to good things.
> > 
> >   Question: with Piezo, the 7000 seems to be the top of the line 
from a
> >   quality-output point of view (as well as everything else too, I 
suppose) -
> >   is that true with your variable-tone method too, or with it's 
larger
> > droplet
> >   size than some of the smaller printers, does the 7000's output 
suffer
> >   relative to them?
> > 
> >   Todd
> > 
> >   > Hi,
> >   >
> >   > I'm back, and glad to see that there is a new and independent 
forum for
> >   > discussing B&W printing technologies.  The Piezo forum has 
lots of
> >   > knowledgeable people, but it's really only for Piezo inks.  
The
> > Epson-inkjet
> >   > forum is also very useful, but I'm really just into B&W, and 
most of the
> >   > discussions there are not that relevant.
> >   >
> >   > How does this forum compare to the DigitalSilver@t... forum?
> >   >
> >   > At any rate, I'm back.
> >   >
> >   > It looks like MIS has posted some of the variable-tone 
(their "variable
> >   > mix") materials.  I'll be finishing the 1280 curves soon.  
The 7000 is
> > also
> >   > now in the works. (Interestingly, a 2000 user is switching in 
the
> >   > variable-tone inkset.  I had never though of that as a 3rd 
party ink
> >   > machine.)
> >   >
> >   > Paul
> >   > http://www.PaulRoark.com
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   > If you do not wish to belong to Digital B&W, The Print, you 
may
> >   > unsubscribe by sending an email to:
> >   > DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@y...
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >   >
> >   >
> > 
> > 
> >         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   If you do not wish to belong to Digital B&W, The Print, you may
> >   unsubscribe by sending an email to:
> >   DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@y...
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of 
Service.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]