Paul,
Thanks to you and everybody for comments clarifying printer
quality as relates to Cone inks.
I've been following your work with variable-tone ink sets.
Beautiful. I am ordering a CIS for my new 1160. Do you have
any recommendation as to the Cone or MIS system being better
for variable-tone work? Once I buy a system, I want to stick with it
so I would like to make an informed choice to begin with.
Yours, Frank
http://www.culturalvisions.com
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Frank,
>
> For some reason I didn't receive your post. I saw it only
indirectly in
> Martin's.
>
> I don't mean to say that the 3000 is equal to the 1160 for Piezo
work. The
> Piezo list is full of horror stories about the 3000 and the Piezo
driver.
> Additionally, my comments are limited to Archival Matte being
fed in through
> the front so that there is better contact with the roller. The 3000
and
> thick paper also seem to be an invitation to trouble.
>
> Additionally, the 1160's smaller dots with the Epson driver are
a clear
> advantage for that machine, at least in theory and on test
strips. However,
> for large prints, I can't see any dots that are attributable to the
3000.
> For postcards I'll continue to use my 1160.
>
> So, the limit of my comment about 3000 being "better" than the
1160 is that
> with my particular samples of these machines, when both use
the Epson driver
> and the 3000 is fed from the front with Archival Matte, my 3000
seems to be
> less inclined to band than my 1160. For Piezo work I'd still
probably not
> even bother with the 3000.
>
> Paul
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mwesley250@e... [mailto:mwesley250@e...]
> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 11:15 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Greetings -- 7000 (& 3000)
>
>
> Frank,
>
> About a week back Ron Landucci (Post #79) said essentially
the same
> thing. He reported that he really couldn't see any difference
between
> the desktop printers output and the 7000 under standard
viewing
> conditions.
>
> Martin
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., frank@c... wrote:
> > Hi Paul, It's good to find you on this list. I wanted to tell you
> > about my friend's switch from 3000 to 7000. His prints are
great,
> but
> > when I compare the same file on each printer side by side
(cone
> > system), I'm hard pressed to say the 7000 is significantly
better.
> > Through a loup it looks tighter, but that 3000 has held it's
own
> over
> > the years.
> >
> > Incidently, I just bought an 1160 and have not set it up yet for
> Piezo,
> > but I was disappointed to hear that you think the 3000 is
superior.
> I
> > thought I was buying "state of the art" for Piezo work. The
3000
> must
> > have the longest production run of any Epson printer.
> >
> > Frank
> > http://www.culturalvsions.com
> >
> >
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark" <
> > paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > > Todd,
> > >
> > > I have not seen any direct, objective comparisons
between the
> 7000 and the
> > > smaller-dot Epsons to know whether there is a visible
> difference. The
> > > prints and test strips I've seen from the 7000 using the
Epson
> driver are
> > > excellent, so I assume it will be visually equal to the
others and
> > > presumably better than the alternative for large prints --
the
> 3000. (I
> > > assume no one would buy either of these unless you
want to do
> large prints.
> > > For me, the 16x20 has always been my target size, so I
now have a
> 3000 as
> > > well as an 1160.)
> > >
> > > I don't know how the dot sizes of the 3000 and 7000
compare, but
> I assume
> > > the 7000 is smaller. Additionally, the 7000 with the
variable-
> tone inkset
> > > will be a true hextone -- which does make a small
difference;
> more shades of
> > > ink allow for smoother outputs. (Note that the Piezo 7000
> inkset is really
> > > just a quad -- 4 total shades, not 6. The nozzle checks
with
> Piezo ink
> > > indicate that the light/photo shade inks are the same
densities
> as the
> > > others. That is, the magenta and light/photo magenta are
the
> same.)
> > >
> > > As good as I expect the 7000 to be, I want to add that I've
been
> pleasantly
> > > surprised at the high quality of the 3000 output. That
printer
> has large
> > > dots and a bad reputation for paper handling and banding
> (especially with
> > > the Piezo driver). In test strips using the variable-tone
inkset
> I can see
> > > some graininess, but in 16x20s, I don't see any evidence
of it.
> My medium
> > > format Tmax 100 negatives appear to be the limiting
factors, not
> the 3000's
> > > dots. Using Archival Matte fed from the front, the printer
feeds
> perfectly
> > > and has no banding. (I think it is actually better than my
> 1160.) (I have
> > > a pre-release 24" roll of Archival Matte. It'll be released
next
> month by
> > > Epson.)
> > >
> > > You'll notice that for the 3000 I have two "NC"
(neutral-cool)
> curves. What
> > > I found is that different curves produce dots at different
> places. Contrary
> > > to my expectations, the dots are not visible in the
highlights
> (where the
> > > Epson ink in the 3000 shows bad dots). Rather, the dots
show up
> in the
> > > midtones or dark tones. On most of the curves, the dots
are so
> mild as to
> > > be irrelevant. With the NC curves, however, I decided to
make
> two versions
> > > so that if the dots do show in a print, the other curve can
be
> used and the
> > > dots may then be in a place where they will not show.
> > >
> > > So, to get back to the 7000, I expect it will be a great printer
> with the
> > > variable-tone inkset. However, if one can't afford the 7000,
and
> if you can
> > > live with paper thin enough to feed from the front, I would
not
> hesitate to
> > > buy a 3000. For 16x20s it is the cheap way to go, and my
16x20
> Archival
> > > Matte prints look great. (I may need to remove a pizza
wheel,
> but I haven't
> > > bothered yet.)
> > >
> > > Paul
> > > http://www.PaulRoark.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Todd Flashner [mailto:tflash@e...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 10:20 PM
> > > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...
> > > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Greetings
> > >
> > >
> > > Welcome back Paul. Alaska Huh? Lucky boy.
> > >
> > > Looks like MIS is up to good things.
> > >
> > > Question: with Piezo, the 7000 seems to be the top of the
line
> from a
> > > quality-output point of view (as well as everything else
too, I
> suppose) -
> > > is that true with your variable-tone method too, or with it's
> larger
> > > droplet
> > > size than some of the smaller printers, does the 7000's
output
> suffer
> > > relative to them?
> > >
> > > Todd
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I'm back, and glad to see that there is a new and
independent
> forum for
> > > > discussing B&W printing technologies. The Piezo
forum has
> lots of
> > > > knowledgeable people, but it's really only for Piezo
inks.
> The
> > > Epson-inkjet
> > > > forum is also very useful, but I'm really just into B&W,
and
> most of the
> > > > discussions there are not that relevant.
> > > >
> > > > How does this forum compare to the DigitalSilver@t...
forum?
> > > >
> > > > At any rate, I'm back.
> > > >
> > > > It looks like MIS has posted some of the variable-tone
> (their "variable
> > > > mix") materials. I'll be finishing the 1280 curves soon.
> The 7000 is
> > > also
> > > > now in the works. (Interestingly, a 2000 user is
switching in
> the
> > > > variable-tone inkset. I had never though of that as a 3rd
> party ink
> > > > machine.)
> > > >
> > > > Paul
> > > > http://www.PaulRoark.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > If you do not wish to belong to Digital B&W, The Print,
you
> may
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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