Digital BW, The Print

Scott,

>Are these inks anything more than carbon, glycerol, and water?

Yes.  The Epson pigs are coated and probably not available anywhere but from
Epson.  In addition to the coating, the pigments themselves may be more
proprietary pigment than carbon.  The base they use has some proprietary
chemicals in it that are not disclosed in the MSDS.  But, at the dilution I
used, the water and glycerol seems to work.  That mixture is the least
likely to have negative interactions with the Epson base, since their base
is that plus some other materials.

Even the un-coated pigs MIS uses are probably not pure carbon, even though
the supplier says they are "carbon."  

>If I know the make up of the ink, I can make it myself.

I'm not so ambitious as to mill my own.  

>Your UT-7 clone do not need curves if you just want neutral through 
>warm prints. Just use the Epson sliders in the driver. Correct?

Yes, the sliders give you some control, but curves give a lot more.  The UT7
curves work reasonably well with the clone inkset described. 

>The "ink particles" are 0.19 microns. Epson nozzles are 
>25 microns +- 5 microns.

Close.  The particles per se are not a problem.  Agglomerations are.  The
quality of the dispersant and other parts of the base are part of the trick.

>Have you made inks from "Scratch"?

I don't have a mill.  But after that, it's wide open, and filters to be sure
there are no clunkers are available.

Good luck.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

______________________________________



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Scott,
> 
> >>I've published on this forum the formula
> >>for a UT7-clone based on Epson UC inks.
> 
> >Can you point me to that post?
> 
> I posted this on 7/19/04 with the Subject, "UltraChrome-based 
variable-tone
> inkset":  
> 
> 
> "This is my 6-14 formula for the UC-VT (for the 2200) I recently 
tested.  It
> is very similar in its behavior to UT7, but the formulas are 
different.
> With sliders set to 0, the 50% patch of an EEM print had C,M,Y 
= .60, .61,
> .60.
> 
> "The base:  4 parts distilled water and 3 parts glycerol.  (I used 
Kic
> technical grade.)
> 
> "(In the past, I've had trouble finding a base that worked well 
with the UC
> inks.  The simple base I used for this inkset does the job and 
anyone can
> make it.)
> 
> "Blue used in mixing:  50% UC M, 50% UC C.
> 
> "K position:  I prefer Eboni.  Epson UC matte black would also work.
> 
> "LK position:  UC LK, no changes.
> 
> "C position:  70% UC PK, 30% UC LK.
> 
> "LC position:  52% UC LK, 48% base.
> 
> "M position:  30% blue, 40% LK, 30% PK.
> 
> "LM position:  30% LK, 10% blue, 60% base.
> 
> "Y position:  88% LC, 7% Y, 5% M.
> 
> "This is not necessarily a final formula, but it's close and 
works.  I had
> no clogging or other problems with these experimental inksets.  
(Nor do I
> have clogging problems with MIS inksets.)"
> 
> >And how did you come to a starting point?
> 
> I'm not sure what you're asking here.
> 
> >I've been thinking of making inks myself.
> >My wife is a chemist and I'm sure we could do it.
> 
> I'm sure most on this list could make the above.  It thought that a 
small
> ink seller might want to take on this inkset for those who have a 
prejudice
> against third-party inks or prefer coated pigs.  But, no one has 
picked it
> up.
> 
> Note that I also made one based on the Epson Archival inkset that I 
thought
> might have more marketing potential for an ink seller.  However, in 
my
> initial fade testing the UC-based version did better than the Epson 
Archival
> version.  (The Epson Archival black is about like the old MIS VM 
black in
> fading.  I think it is actually a hybrid pigment-dye ink -- not in 
the same
> league with the current MIS and Epson matte and photo blacks.)
> 
> Have fun.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> ___________________________________
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
> <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > Ben,
> > 
> > >...wondering if anyone ... wanted to comment on issues like 
> > >lightfastness, ...
> > 
> > I concluded several years ago that I had to do my own testing.  
So, 
> I made a
> > fluorescent light fader (cheap but probably about as good as 
any), 
> and
> > started doing carefully-controlled comparison tests.  (I'll leave 
> the
> > predictions of years of display to Wilhelm and RIT.)  That is 
what 
> convinced
> > me to switch from Piezo to MIS inks.  The cheaper MIS inks were 
more
> > lightfast.
> > 
> > Now both companies have new and very lightfast pigments.  I still 
> do some
> > testing, however, to see if anything better comes around and even 
> to explore
> > non-inkset sources of pigments.  
> > 
> > The bottom line is that the MIS UltraTone family of pigments has 
> beat every
> > other inkset I've tested, including the Epson Archival pigments.  
> The carbon
> > pigments seem to be the very best in terms of their retaining the 
> visual
> > density after lots of light exposure.  The carbon does warm up a 
> bit,
> > however.  I think the amount of warming is acceptable and not 
> unlike what we
> > see with other traditional B&W media.
> > 
> > Last year the magenta (which is in the cool and neutral inks) was 
> the
> > relative weakling.  So, at that time I recommended pure carbon, 
> like the MIS
> > EZ-Warm, for the best lightfastness.  (For archival, dark storage 
> the paper
> > base and storage conditions are the limiting factors, not the 
> pigments.)
> > Now the latest formulations have substituted a new pigment for 
the 
> magenta.
> > Because of this, the new UT neutral inks are almost as lightfast 
as 
> the
> > carbon.
> > 
> > Of course, I may not be totally un-biased here.  MIS's business 
> model is
> > such that it simply produces what the market wants.  It does not 
do 
> its own
> > B&W inkset designs, but it is an expert in finding good inks that 
> act as the
> > inputs for the B&W inksets.  As a practical matter, during the 
last 
> few
> > years, the B&W inksets have been formulations that I've come up 
> with.  So,
> > while I'm independent and do this for my own non-monetary 
purposes, 
> one
> > could argue that I may have a bias toward the inksets I 
> formulated.  On the
> > other hand, I formulated them in response to my fade tests, and 
my 
> goal is
> > to get the medium to the point where it is accepted by collectors 
> as equal
> > to the silver print.  Additionally, I've published on this forum 
> the formula
> > for a UT7-clone based on Epson UC inks.  I also published the 
fade 
> test
> > results, and the UC-based UT7 did great in their delta e, but not 
> as well as
> > the MIS inks in density reduction (fading).
> > 
> > Hope this helps.
> > 
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
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Please follow these basic guidelines:
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them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
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DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
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"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
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