Moises, The "deep black" is clearly an issue, especially for matte black ink on matte papers. All RIPs will have this problem and all pigment inks also. There is nothing that can be done about it, other than using a dye based ink, which introduces a lot of other problems. But the UltraChrome matte black ink of the 2200 is really sufficient. Most people have problems because of the extremely high degree of linear input-out behavior of QTR and other RIPs. So if your image histogram is not clipped in the shadows, you will actually see a lot of shadow separation in the 90-100% region. This will give the "impression" of weak black. In reality what you are seeing is glorious shadow detail. If you come from true darkroom printing tradition, this is the biggest thing to get used to, or so I am told. If you come from Pt-Pd contact printing tradition, you will say amen! You get get stronger black using the photo lack ink on resin coated papers, but that introduces bronzing problems and a very warm tone. Unless you use a dye based ink, the 1280 printer will not help. If you use the Epson inks, try printing "black only". In all honesty there is no perfect solution yet. And I hope you do not expect inkjet prints to look exactly like darkroom prints, because they don't and hopefully never will. Hope this helps. Shilesh -----Original Message----- From: Moises Faidengold [mailto:mfaidengold@...] Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 1:53 PM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Cc: Jani, Shilesh Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Piezography? Or, the state of the state. Shilesh, Interesting comments you make. Now, let me be a little blunt. I have been playing with a 220o and the Epson inks and so far have not been able to get really dark blacks therefore I really would appreciate your input and/or suggestions as to what to do. I also, tried with the QTR, but so far I have not fully satisfied with it. And I really would like to keep having the capacity to print color with the 2200 therefore the route of the OEM inks is somewhat inconvenient. I have however a 1280 that I could convert to be a B&W only, any suggestions? Regards Moises Shilesh Jani <shilesh.jani@...> wrote: Jeff, Here is what I would do. (1) get the 4000 if 17 inch is wide enough for you. (2) install and use QTR (3) if you like it, send Roy the $50 (4) enjoy making prints If you don't like QTR, that's when life gets complicated. You have choice of: (1) continuing with OEM inks + RIP. This will not necessarily be better than QTR, or (2) putting-in 3rd party gary inks such as offered by MIS and Cone. In my mind (and experience), there is no doubt that the best output will come from 3rd party gray inks. But the difference will be so miniscule, that you will wonder why you went down that path, in the process losing the ability to make color prints. Only a year ago I would have recomended to go with 3rd party inks and get a separate printer for color (if that is an interest for you). Not anymore. For $50 QTR is an embarrasing bargain. Oh, I have made and seen some very compelling b/w prints from the 2200, 4000, and 7600 printers with just the Epson driver, provided you have a good profile for your paper, and you are not too finicky about metamerism. The same cannot be said for the older generation 1280 dye based inkset. Good luck. Shilesh --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Curto <jeff@j...> wrote: > > The collective wisdom of this group is phenomenal, so I'm looking for some > opinions. > > Once upon a time, I used Cone's Piezography Photoshop plug-in in combination > with his inks on an Epson 1200 to make beautiful prints. Problem was, for > every beautiful print I made, I made 20 that were "tossers" because of ink > clogs, banding issues, etc, etc, etc. > > I gave up. & gt; > Recently, I've been using QTR on an Epson 2200 (thanks, Roy!), and I'm > impressed, mainly because it works on a nearly "plug-and-play" sort of > fashion. I'd like a bit more richness in the blacks, but otherwise, I'm > happy. > > I also note that a number of users on this list are using Paul Roark's > curves, and still others are using ImagePrint to drive various printers. > > I am also on a Piezography listserv, and note that the number of messages in > that group has tailed off to nearly "zero" over the last few months, > suggesting that either users are busy making prints, or that, like me, > they've abandoned ship, looking for a lower frustration and "P.I.A." factor. > > I'm considering buying an Epson 4000 for use with either QTR or ImagePrint, > and before I make that large (size and price) leap, I'm seeking opinions on > the st ate of B&W inkjet printing at this point in history. > > *Is Piezography dead? > *Is the Epson 4000 worth the price of admission? > *Is ImagePrint superior to Roy's QTR? If so, why or how? > > Thanks in advance for any insights that anyone might have. > > -Jeff Curto Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. Please follow these basic guidelines: - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Moises Faidengold <mfaidengold@y...> wrote: > Shilesh, > > Interesting comments you make. > Now, let me be a little blunt. I have been playing with a 220o and the Epson inks and so far have not been able to get really dark blacks therefore I really would appreciate your input and/or suggestions as to what to do. > I also, tried with the QTR, but so far I have not fully satisfied with it. > And I really would like to keep having the capacity to print color with the 2200 therefore the route of the OEM inks is somewhat inconvenient. I have however a 1280 that I could convert to be a B&W only, any suggestions? > > Regards > > Moises > > Shilesh Jani <shilesh.jani@s...> wrote: > > Jeff, > > Here is what I would do. > > (1) get the 4000 if 17 inch is wide enough for you. > (2) install and use QTR > (3) if you like it, send Roy the $50 > (4) enjoy making prints > > If you don't like QTR, that's when life gets complicated. You have > choice of: > > (1) continuing with OEM inks + RIP. This will not necessarily be > better than QTR, or > (2) putting-in 3rd party gary inks such as offered by MIS and Cone. > > In my mind (and experience), there is no doubt that the best output > will come from 3rd party gray inks. But the difference will be so > miniscule, that you will wonder why you went down that path, in the > process losing the ability to make color prints. Only a year ago I > would have recomended to go with 3rd party inks and get a separate > printer for color (if that is an interest for you). Not anymore. > For $50 QTR is an embarrasing bargain. Oh, I have made and seen some > very compelling b/w prints from the 2200, 4000, and 7600 printers > with just the Epson driver, provided you have a good profile for your > paper, and you are not too finicky about metamerism. The same cannot > be said for the older generation 1280 dye based inkset. > > Good luck. > > Shilesh > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Curto > <jeff@j...> wrote: > > > > The collective wisdom of this group is phenomenal, so I'm looking > for some > > opinions. > > > > Once upon a time, I used Cone's Piezography Photoshop plug-in in > combination > > with his inks on an Epson 1200 to make beautiful prints. Problem > was, for > > every beautiful print I made, I made 20 that were "tossers" because > of ink > > clogs, banding issues, etc, etc, etc. > > > > I gave up. > > > > Recently, I've been using QTR on an Epson 2200 (thanks, Roy!), and > I'm > > impressed, mainly because it works on a nearly "plug-and-play" sort > of > > fashion. I'd like a bit more richness in the blacks, but otherwise, > I'm > > happy. > > > > I also note that a number of users on this list are using Paul > Roark's > > curves, and still others are using ImagePrint to drive various > printers. > > > > I am also on a Piezography listserv, and note that the number of > messages in > > that group has tailed off to nearly "zero" over the last few months, > > suggesting that either users are busy making prints, or that, like > me, > > they've abandoned ship, looking for a lower frustration > and "P.I.A." factor. > > > > I'm considering buying an Epson 4000 for use with either QTR or > ImagePrint, > > and before I make that large (size and price) leap, I'm seeking > opinions on > > the state of B&W inkjet printing at this point in history. > > > > *Is Piezography dead? > > *Is the Epson 4000 worth the price of admission? > > *Is ImagePrint superior to Roy's QTR? If so, why or how? > > > > Thanks in advance for any insights that anyone might have. > > > > -Jeff Curto > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Message
Re: Piezography? Or, the state of the state.
2005-01-28 by Shilesh Jani