Digital BW, The Print

That's really interesting to me because the first day I used it I was able to achieve what I 
considered "neutral" prints on Hahnemule  Phot Rag media. Of course "neutral" changes on 
each paper you try. Various degrees of optical brightners have a profound effect. My 
neutral set up on William Turner looked very warm just because of the natural paper base. 
The paper itself has color that contributes a lot to the highlights ( as does gelatin silver 
print paper ). 

I also hold these inkjet prints up to silver prints I have in my studio done on all kinds of 
processes, a Jerry Uelsman and friends prints from decades ago, a collector friends Ansel 
Adams, Paul Caponigro, Clarience John Laughlin, Emmet Gowin, Weston, etc. Now I see 
none of these silver prints as "neutral" anymore. Most of them look a bit green to me. 
Some look selenium ( not neutral ) and over toned, and some look cold. But none of them 
look neutral. The print developer one chooses to use influences the prints quite a lot as 
does the brand and variety of silver paper and toneing. I remember Adams saying once 
that the main reason he used a light selenium toneing was to get rid of that "horrible 
chemical color" that was the product of residue from the print developer he used. He also 
altered the benzitrizole and other anti- foggant compounds to alter the color of the 
developer. He called his prints cool purple sepia, whatever that means. My old Ilford 
Gallerie selenium toned prints look very slightly greenish to me too now, and I never 
thought of them being that way before. I don't think there is a such thing as true neutral, 
only subtle differences in hue. I think with these rips we have so many more choices with 
print color that were never even dreamed of before. It really changes the way you think 
about monochrome altogether, more like a painter or traditional printmaker would.

But, your right, when you place two black and white prints beside each other your 
perception of them changes, as does the light source you are viewing them in. My primary 
concern is to have the same hue in all value areas of the print! It is possible to do that now 
with Ultrachrome. I wish I had all these rips to test, but then I wouldn't get any work done 
at all.

John


> I haven't read this whole thread, but I will add what is likely a dissenting voice 
> here.  Using QTR with my  9600 and Matte Black ink, and printing on a variety 
> of papers (Enhanced Matte, Photo Rag), I have never been able to get a B&W 
> print that I consider neutral.  Since there is no "canned" neutral QTR profile, 
> you have to blend the warm/cool/selenium profiles to get neutral.  I have 
> experimented with various blends recommended by people on this forum, 
> and also making further guesses and refinements as to what to blend to get to 
> "neutral".  When I hold up any QTR print I've made (using various 
> combinations/blends) next to a silver gelatin print and next to an ImagePrint 
> print, the QTR print is not neutral in comparsion.  The difference may be slight, 
> and you may find the slight coolness or warmth of a QTR print pleasing, but I 
> have never been able to get "neutral" from QTR.   Of coure, it could just be me, 
> but I've done a bit of experimentation with QTR.
> 
> Now: before I get attacked for bashing QTR, I've paid my shareware fee and 
> think it's a fabulous product.  And, in fact, since I only have ImagePrint for the 
> 9600, I may start using QTR for my B&W work on the 4000.  Just answering 
> whether I think QTR prints are "truly neutral" and my answer is basically "No, 
> but for the hundreds of $ difference between QTR and ImagePrint, it may be 
> close enough."
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" <
> deanwork2003@y...> wrote:
> > 
> > With my 9600 on rag media they are absolutely neutral and without 
> metamerism. Even 
> > some of the quad inksets I've used had far more metamerism.
> > 
> > This rip is for real. I have not tried it with glossy media and the Epson photo 
> black ink yet. 
> > 
> > Does anyone have experience with that?
> > 
> > john
> > 
> > :
> > > 
> > > Hi all,
> > > 
> > > While contemplating my next printer, I'm interested in subjective 
> responses here.  With 
> > the 
> > > 2200 and epson inks, are QTR images truly neutral?  I realize that you can 
> tone images, 
> > > but are the results comparable to a dedicated quad inkset?  I am not 
> looking for 
> > > perfection, but I would prefer the ramp from black to white showing no 
> color casts or 
> > > crossovers.  Warm, neutral, or platinum tones are great - as long as the 
> tone is stable 
> > > from black to white.  I like the idea of one printer for color and black and 
> white - and I 
> > > only print on matte papers.
> > > 
> > > Don