Digital BW, The Print

If you are not familiar with Anthony Atkielski, he is well known in many other groups for 
doing nothing but arguing about minutiae. 

He was kicked off the Leica User Group twice and at least two other groups that I know of. 

He doesn't do B/W digital inkjet printing and has no need to be on this group other than it 
provides him another source of people that get hooked into responding to him. The term 
'troll' was created to describe him.

However, if you wish to send him a dollar or a gift, feel free:

http://www.atkielski.com/inlink.php?/main/Donations.html


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Christer Rosewelll 
<christerart@m...> wrote:
> Anthony,
> 
> Seems to me your arguing for the sake of arguing - please accept that 
> for  many of us - especially those of us who do this for a living - an 
> upgrade is usually always a timesaving and money making event.
> 
> And for those of us who use Macs - an upgrade is almost always a very 
> simple thing - install, reboot and go back to work.
> 
> If you prefer to work with old software and methods, that's OK - you do 
> what is good for you - but please accept - without getting 
> argumentative and using silly arguments - that some of us do things 
> different than you do - and you should accept that!
> 
> Now - don't waste your time arguing or rebutting me - or anyone else - 
> just accept that for the vast majority of artist/photographers - 
> whatever - an upgrade is normally a positive thing.
> 
> One more thing - the mac G5's can address up to 8 GB of memory:
> 
> "64-bit processors enable the Power Mac G5 to break through the 4GB 
> barrier and support up to 8GB of 400MHz, 128-bit DDR SDRAM — four times 
> more than a typical PC. More main memory and fast 6.4 GBps throughput 
> means you can write large projects to memory 40 times faster than to a 
> hard disk."
> 
> C
> 
> 
> 			Christer, AKA Christer Rosewell
> 
> 			  http://www.ChristerArt.com
> 		  	   3.5 million visitors to date..
> 
> 
> On Mar 9, 2005, at 7:24 AM, 
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> 
> > From: "Anthony G. Atkielski" <anthony@a...>
> > Subject: Re: Re: I don't know a justification for CS in real 
> > photography
> >
> > Carolyn Frayn writes:
> >
> >> I don't even understand your point.
> >
> > The point is that upgrades are usually a waste of time and money.
> >
> >> Ya well, software has changed a little.
> >
> > Not really.  It is always getting more bloated and complicated, but
> > that's about it.  The complaints of IT managers today echo the
> > complaints of IT managers forty years ago.
> >
> >> Argh.
> >
> > You don't really know, do you?  A new version came out, and you bought
> > it.  No real analysis of cost vs. benefit.  That's how most computer
> > users do things, thanks to heavy conditioning by computer hardware and
> > software vendors.
> >
> > In the olden days, before times got tough, people were conditioned to 
> > do
> > the same thing with cars.  That's not as common today, although a few
> > people still feel they have to buy a new car simply because there are
> > new cars to buy.
> >
> >> Nope.. There were many in between.
> >
> > So what were the reasons for each incremental upgrade?  There are only 
> > a
> > few logically valid reasons for upgrading:
> >
> > - An upgrade fixes a bug that interferes with your work.
> > - An upgrade provides a feature that will be essential to your work.
> > - An upgrade is forced by compatibility issues with other people.
> > - An upgrade is forced by other upgrades (hardware or software).
> >
> > Note that features _essential_ to your work are extremely rare.  Most
> > people are emotionally attracted to new features, but they don't
> > actually _need_ them.
> >
> >> I didn't say there were no delays, I said it was much faster.
> >
> > Speed gains are usually due to hardware upgrades.  I don't recall ever
> > seeing speed gains with an upgrade of Photoshop, since each version
> > tends to be more bloated than its predecessor.
> >
> >> So we're all sheep then. Conditioned and simple minded, good to know.
> >
> > Yes.  That's the current IT business model for desktop systems.
> >
> >> What does that have to do with upgrading photoshop.
> >
> > A great deal, since for some people Photoshop is part of a
> > mission-critical workflow.
> >
> >> And who dictates they are useless.
> >
> > It's not up to anyone to prove them useless; it's up to vendors to 
> > prove
> > them useful, notably with respect to upgrades.  Unless they can count 
> > on
> > users upgrading blindly to each new version.
> >
> >> Your photography then, there are other sorts out here.
> >
> > The other sorts are more like digital art.  If all you are doing is
> > emulating what used to be done in the darkroom, the functions you need
> > are pretty simple.  If you are manipulating images beyond that, it's 
> > not
> > just photography any more.
> >
> >> Do you print?
> >
> > I usually have a lab print, as it's cheaper and the quality is better
> > (for color photos).  I can print my own black and white, but until I
> > dedicate a printer to B&W printing, the quality will not be optimal.
> >
> >> THAT costs money too... Bells and whistles to one are worthwhile tools
> >> to another.
> >
> > It's surprising how few bells and whistles can withstand the scrutiny 
> > of
> > careful analysis, however.
> >
> >> That would be none of your business.
> >
> > No need to give it, as I know there was none.  You never audited it,
> > anyway.  Nobody ever does.  If they did, they certainly wouldn't be
> > upgrading all the time.  But Microsoft, Adobe, Intel, AMD, and other
> > vendors appreciate your business.
> >
> >> Oh yes, they're taking over.. Turn off adobe call home.
> >
> > That has always been the trend with all software, including Photoshop.
> >
> >> Well, this has been fun... Don't know how I got involved, but I'm
> >> stepping down... I know you love this argument stuff Anthony, I don't.
> >> It gets old fast and I have work to do.
> >
> > Right.
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]