Digital BW, The Print

Thanks so much for all your help and encouragement not to give up on 
QTR. I guess I had read a lot about how the images seem flat, and I 
confirmed it with my test prints.
I don't think I was very clear in my post. I was referring to 
printing black and white only.
I am a fairly advanced Photoshop user and I think I am able to 
convert beautiful b&w images in PS. I also do a lot of color 
printing on my 2200 with Epson and other paper company's
profiles, 
and I think they come out beautiful. (Are the profiles on the Epson 
2200 driver and download page by Bill Atkinson?) 
I understand the difference in dynamic range between monitor and 
print, but I have never used a rip before, so I am new to black and 
white printing and I want to learn. I was referring to a comparison 
I made of test prints using the QTR compared to a print made with an 
Epson paper profile which had a color cast, but beautiful depth and 
detail.
You are right, John, I was doing something wrong. Steve, your 
explanation about the PS profiles confirmed it. I did not convert to 
profile. When you convert, do you use dither? I thought the profiles 
for PS were for soft proofing only, but then again I could not find 
the quick start guide, it did not install (Does anyone know where to 
find it?)
I just printed some more test prints, WOW they are beautiful!!!! I 
am convinced.
Here is my workflow, please let me know where I am going wrong and 
where I can improve.   Paper type matte, my paper is Epson enh. 
Matte, MK ink, 1440 super, better speed. Enh matte cool both curves. 
A second print with 75% cool, 25% warm, there is only a very slight 
difference, and they are both beautiful. A third print on Premium 
Luster, PK ink, 1440super, better speed, dither ordered, now I used 
a semi gloss curve because there was no Luster, and this print came 
out brown, but still a beautiful depth and clarity.
Thanks again, I couldn't have done this without you, Gurli


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale 
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
> $50 is all you need spend.  QTR is really very good at what it 
does.  You
> just need to understand how to use it best.  Here's the longer 
answer.
> 
> First understand that you can't, generally speaking, print as dark 
as you
> can see on screen and that paper isn't generally as white.  That 
is, the
> dynamic range of today's paper with today's inks is relatively 
narrow.  Not
> bad but narrow.  OK that first bit was easy.
> 
> Now QTR is set up to print an even gradation L* (Lab's L) from its 
darkest
> black to paper white.  If it could generate perfect black and 
perfect white
> then you could print the Lab space in totality with an even 
gradation of L*
> and have a nice "gamma" or curvature in density from pure black to 
pure
> white.  But as noted above we can't get perfect black or perfect 
white.   If
> the best black is really "light black" and the best white 
is "almost white"
> and there is still a straight line of L* between the two then the 
gamma or
> contrast must be less.  Hence, out-of-the-box the prints look a 
little
> "flat" because the black isn't as good as on screen and the gamma 
or
> contrast is less.  
> 
> OK so what do we do about it?  Two solutions.  First, we could 
introduce an
> arbitrary S curve to increase image contrast so that when it is 
printed we
> have a better look. Secondly, we could use some of the tools 
available to us
> to do that for us.  In either case, it is useful to see before we 
print the
> result of either action.
> 
> The second of the two is more effective, easier and more readily 
previewed
> or soft proofed.  Roy has designed two ICC profiles, QTR Gray 
Matte Paper
> and QTR Gray Photo Paper, which are in essence general profiles 
for the two
> types of media we print to.  With these you can use two 
Photoshop's ability
> to convert between ICC profiles and to preview a file in another 
colour
> space.  So at the time of printing you can use Photoshop to 
convert your
> image to the print space using the perceptual intent and black 
point
> compensation.  This in effect automates the s curve piece.  
Furthermore,
> prior to printing you can preview how the file will look once 
converted to
> the print space (matte or photo), ie see how it will look when 
printed.  Use
> View -> Proof Setup -> Custom  to set up the soft proof.  Convert 
the
> document to the print space prior to printing (save a preprint 
master
> first!).  The workflow for last bit is slightly different 
depending on
> whether you are on a Mac or PC.
> 
> The ICC profiles can be found here:
> 
> http://homepage.mac.com/royharrington/FileSharing2.html
> 
> under grayspaceXYZv2.zip
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > From: Diane Fields <picnic@c...>
> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 12:38:47 -0400
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Best Rip for 2200
> > 
> > 
> > Have you tried softproofing in PS and adjusting 
tonality/contrast?
> > 
> > Diane
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: glovinger
> >   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@...m
> >   Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 8:12 AM
> >   Subject: [Digital BW] Best Rip for 2200
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   I installed the QTR rip yesterday for my Epson 2200 and made 
several
> >   test prints. So far I like the color tones, but I am very 
unhappy
> >   with the flatness of my prints. I actually prefer the green 
colorcast I
> >   get without the rip because of the wonderful detail and subtle 
tones
> >   the printer can produce.
> >   What do you all consider the best rip on the market for the 
2200? I
> >   guess I need to spend more than $50.- to get the best of both 
worlds.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
resources as
> > they are often being updated.
> > 
> >   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> >   If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or 
you wish to
> > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
this same
> > page.
> > 
> >   Please follow these basic guidelines:
> >   - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to keep
> > them short.
> >   - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks 
or flames.
> > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from 
the membership
> > without notice.
> >   - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
digital B&W
> > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
removed from the
> > membership.
> >   - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group 
rules and
> > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the 
group Owner and
> > Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files 
section:
> >   
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> > 
> >   BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, 
THE PRINT
> > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" 
AND
> > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
LIABLE TO YOU
> > FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR 
EXEMPLARY
> > DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF 
PROFITS, GOODWILL,
> > USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" 
AND "MODERATORS" OF
> > DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE 
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH
> > DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE 
THE DIGITAL BW,
> > THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION 
OF YOUR
> > TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD 
PARTY ON THE
> > DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER 
RELATING TO THE
> > DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-------------
> >   Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> >     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/
> >       
> >     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >     DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >       
> >     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms 
of Service.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
resources as
> > they are often being updated.
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to
> > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
this same
> > page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to keep
> > them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
flames.
> > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from 
the membership
> > without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
digital B&W
> > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
removed from the
> > membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules 
and
> > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the 
group Owner and
> > Moderators. See „Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines‰
in the 
Files section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> > 
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, 
THE PRINT
> > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE 
„OWNER‰ AND
> > „MODERATORS‰ OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP
SHALL NOT 
BE LIABLE TO YOU
> > FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR 
EXEMPLARY
> > DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF 
PROFITS, GOODWILL,
> > USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE 
„OWNER‰ 
AND „MODERATORS‰ OF
> > DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE 
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH
> > DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE 
THE DIGITAL BW,
> > THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION 
OF YOUR
> > TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD 
PARTY ON THE
> > DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER 
RELATING TO THE
> > DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> >  
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> >