Digital BW, The Print

Robert,

> ... I'm trying the EZN inks with a C84 as a testbed ...
> 
> I'm confused about your role with MIS.  
> Do you work with the company as a part of their R&D? 

MIS and I have never had any formal relationship.  I started modifying Piezo
inksets to make them more neutral and get control over the tones/hues of the
prints, but the seller (Jon Cone) was not happy with what he saw as
competition.  So, members of the Piezo ink forum suggested I try MIS inks,
which I did.  

MIS has a totally different business model than Jon has.  MIS just makes
what its customers want.  They found that lots of people wanted the mixes
that I was publishing.  So, I've become, in part, their de facto B&W inkset
"R&D" guy.  But it's all informal.  I'm not on their payroll, but I do get
free ink and some related supplies.  (They've offered to pay, but I've,
perhaps foolishly, declined.  I'm a retired public servant who is simply not
comfortable doing anything for money.)


> I'm also confused about the proper settings
> one should use with MIS inksets.  For instance, with EZN, the printer
> settings per MIS are different from the ones you recommend.

Be sure you're looking at the settings for the model you have. On my Printer
Information index, at http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/index.htm, I don't have
anything listed for the C84.  I have a "Readme" file for the C86, but the
settings may be different for the C84.  Before I made the "Readme" files,
I'd just take notes on what seemed to work and send them to MIS.  Those have
ended up in various places on the MIS website.



> Naturally, I'm less concerned with the EZN setup, but if I go with UT7
> inks, I would like to know that whatever information I am receiving is
> consistent and true to proper B&W printing.


I have a Readme for the UT7 and 2200 that is accessible from my Index,
above.  I do not support printers any further than what is on that index.
Those are basically the printers I've used.  I use the Readme files as
notebooks of what worked for me.  The curves that are posted are the curves
I make for the printers I have.



The question as to what is "consistent and true to proper B&W printing" is
more complex.  There perhaps is no such thing.  However, here are some of my
thoughts on the subject.

Recently and for newer printers, I've moved to inksets that can be
controlled via the Epson driver sliders as well as with Photoshop curves and
rips like QTR and IJC.  The driver sliders don't give a lot of control, but
if the B&W inkset is made for them, the print quality with minimal slider
controls is often, on average, the best there is.  

As one moves away from the Epson driver and all the jets firing, the chances
of problems start to increase.  In particular, many printers appear to need
all the jets or "channels" firing to hide what we'd consider printer defects
that cause microbanding.  The more one pays for a printer, often the more
likely it'll be built well enough to use radical curves (or Black Only
printing) that cut out inks.  However, even with 2200s if curves cut out
some "colors" or jets, a certain percentage of them will show some
microbanding or other artifacts.  So, for those who get a printer that is
marginal and can't handle the curves or other options we often talk about,
being able to print with the Epson driver at near default settings is a good
fallback that may well save their investment. 

Also, being able to just print with the Epson driver at near default
settings and get a good B&W print is much needed positive reinforcement for
many.  The frequent posters on this forum are technically savvy and much
more tolerant of the problems that might be encountered as one moves away
from the Epson driver than is the typical B&W photographer who simply wants
to output his or her digital files.  Part of my "mission" is to get top
notch output to these more typical B&W photographers (including those with
limited budgets).
 
At any rate, Epson doesn't make its systems for people like most of the
posters here who use non-Epson inks and/or specialized workflows.  So, we're
often asking our printers to do things they were never designed to do.

So, what is "consistent and true to proper B&W printing"?  There is probably
no such thing, but Epson would say buy a 2400.  In this printer they've
integrated "B&W" printing into the driver, where they also have all the ink
jets firing -- probably for the same reason I use that position. 

On the other hand, a C86 will make more lightfast B&W for a fraction the
cost of a 2400.  And with the R200, I hope to have not only more lightfast
but also smoother B&W output at the $69 printer level.  

And you can be sure that the approach I use for the 2400 I now have will
have a mode that takes advantage of the Epson driver and has all the jets
firing.  On top of this will be curves and rip controls that get more out of
the system, but the starting point is the "rip" that was an integral part of
the printer design -- the Epson driver at near default settings.

I'm not sure the 2200 is being made any more.  If there are good ones
available for cheap, it may still be a good way to go, but if one has to pay
a price close to the 2400, I'd recommend stepping up to the 2400.

Hope this rambling post helps.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 





> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
> <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > The C86 curves are here: http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/C86-curves.html
> >
> > I have no idea if they'll work on a C84.  However, grayscale curves are
> > relatively easy to modify.  I have a tutorial aimed at the UT FS
> curves at
> > http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/Monotone_Curves.htm that should work
> just as
> > well for these C86 curves.
> >
> > In general, my printing information is indexed at
> > http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/index.htm
> >
> > Good luck.
> >
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Robert
> > > Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 4:34 PM
> > > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [Digital BW] Paul's C86 EZ Curves - Where are they?
> > >
> > > Where are these C86 curves posted, and what do they do?  I have a C84
> > > and I'd like to try them out.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Robert Ades
> > >
> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "erutchick2002"
> > > <erutchick@a...> wrote:
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > I've been lurking on this board for 3 or 4 years.  My last pass at
> > > > quads was Piezography and Piezotones on a 1160 a few years
> > > > ago.  I do most of my work in color on a 7600, but still like to
> > > > shoot some b/w on occasion.
> > > >
> > > > I picked up a C86 a few months ago and test -printed a bit, with
> > > > satisfactory results.
> > > >
> > > > For some reason, I'm not able to download the MIS EZ curves
> > > > that Paul posted.
> > > >
> > > > I'm running a Mac G3 on OS 9.2, and my mouse does not have a
> > > > right-click option.
> > > >
> > > > Any pointers?  Thanks!
> > > >
> > > > Ellen Rutchick
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
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> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
> section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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