Digital BW, The Print

Yes, I find the HPR and R.R. Dourian measure almost identically 
(certainly within the range of measurement error).  The ICC profiles 
QTR generates can be laid on top of each other and are also 
essentially identical.

On your observations about HPR and VFA, I find (don't forget, with 
the K3 inks) that VFA has consistently much better dmax over many 
batches of both papers, each in two different sizes.  This is very 
apparent in just looking at the images and in measurement.  The L* 
measures for VFA run in the low 14's, for HPR in the mid to high 
16's.  I have only the single Super A3 box of the USFA for 
comparison.  In the shadows, it seems identical visually to the HPR 
and measures essentially the same.  The USFA, however, shows better 
shadow separation, spanning the 90-100 densities from L* 26.98 to 
16.44.  The HPR is 24.52-16.53.  This separation could make the USFA 
look weaker, but then you need a PS curves adjustment to get any 
compression you want.  The Eboni could also change the results for 
sure.  So I don't know if the USFA is PHP because you tested one 
paper and ink and I've tested another paper and ink.  We'd have to 
control *one* of the variables!

Yes the USFA is very bright for a non-OBA paper, and I looked at it 
under a black light: it is dead silent.  The HPR glows like it just 
flew in from Mars by comparison.  The USFA is also just very pleasing 
in color: neither yellow nor dingy, etc.

I will look at your review of the Merlin Natural.  Tuning the color 
with ABW is very nice.  With the USFA I am using a -12 -16 adjustment 
which nicely neutralizes the warmth of the paper color.  Oddly, it 
even seems to cool down the highlights.  

Yes, I think the way a paper "falls" in the ABW does have a big 
effect on our perception of it, which is probably one of the reasons 
the Epson papers have been looking good to me.  "Photographically 
convincing" is a good phrase and one I think of often in looking at 
these paper/ink combinations.  In part, this means to me that I do 
not see the paper or ink, but the photograph, that the media is a 
transparent conveyor of the image.  With all the detailed contol and 
endless permutations we have with this digital process it's very easy 
to lose sight of this.  I've spent more time looking at *paper* in 
the past six or eight months than I did in my previous 40 years of 
photography. 

I should mention that moving the ABW color selector can substantially 
changes both the profile of the paper and the dmax.  In general, any 
adjustment lowers dmax a bit.  So, I've been doing an ICC profile for 
any given ABW setting, which has proven quite worthwhile.  

I will look at the Merlin issue.

Best,
Walt




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones" 
<cj@c...> wrote:
>
> Hello Walt,
> 
> >after testing the HPR/Red River Dourian
> 
> Did you get the same measurememnts on these?
> 
> 
> >I have heard suggested that the USFA is actually Premeier Hot 
> >Press Fine Art,
> 
> Same here, but I have only tested PHP (with slightly different
> results, see below).
> 
> 
> >USFA - does not have nearly the dmax of the VFA...but 
approximately 
> >the dmax of HPR...
> >In looking at just the shadow areas of the USFA and HPR, they are 
> >essentially indistinguishable.  Neither has the very strong blacks 
> >of the VFA and this is a very apparent difference visually.
> >Note that all my work is done with the K3 inks.
> 
> In my visual comparisons of HPR, VFA and PHP I get slightly 
different
> results (VFA and HPR both in the 5 group with PHP lagging behind in
> the 4 group).  I'm wondering if the difference is because PHP is
> actually different than USFA or because I use a different ink (Eboni
> BO) for my tests...or maybe just differences in production batches
> (because my VFA and HPR look about the same).
> 
> Anyway, the PHP I tested is very bright as you say for USFA,
> remarkable for a non-OBA paper.  Nice stuff.  A lot of people favor 
it.
> 
> In a similar vein, I recently took a chance on a box of Merlin 
Natural
> because I was impressed with it's look last summer when I reviewed 
it.
> It turns out to work really nicely with K3 inks and I have moved it
> to my A-List.  In particular, at ABW 2h,10v it resembles my old
> favorite darkroom paper, Ilford MGFB II.  By itself a print looks
> neutral, but put it next to a cold tone print and you see it's 
slight
> warmpth.  I loved that paper and this is the closest I've come to 
it's
> look so far.  Also, at ABW 0h,0v, it comes as close to a true
> uncolorized neutral black as I've seen so far on any paper (an 
elusive
> goal with K3)...Hmmm, I just had a thought: maybe that's why it 
seems
> like such a good fit with K3 inks; if the neutral setting gives a
> truly neutral tone then maybe somehow it's in synch with the K3 
system
> (I always use the VFA paper setting).  What do you think?  Anyway,
> it's really nice stuff and I'm looking forward to doing more work 
with
> it. 
> 
> I'm appreciating more and more ABW's ability to so easily fine tune
> the tone.  I'm finding that every paper has it's "sweet spot", a
> setting that is particularly harmonious and photographically
> convincing.  Sometimes changing just a single ABW unit makes a big
> difference and some obvious tinge disappears (sometimes I think 
single
> ABW units are too coarse, and wish we could enter decimal values 
like
> 12.3).
> 
> I know these aesthetic things are hard to describe and probably
> aren't quantifiable, but Merlin Natural seems to fit more 
comfortably
> with K3 inks than some other papers do.  With some it's been a
> struggle to find a good ABW setting that really clicks into place 
(for
> example I have yet to find a setting for Condor BW that I'm fully
> satisfied with).  Are you experiencing this?
> 
> Regards,
> Clayton
> 
> 
> Info on black and white digital printing at    
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
>