Digital BW, The Print

I'm sort of in the same boat as Steve with my machines.  My 4000 is  
running a dual quad setup (piezo carbon sepia and k7 inks) which I  
don't think many people are using and I'm in the process of switching  
my 2400 over to MIS k4 inks.  I will make create-icc profiles for  
anyone that wants to send me a printed target made with their  
printer, inks, and BW workflow.   I can then easily measure the  
target, make, and return an icc profile by email.  I would not  
charge, but expect users to contribute to Roy for the use of QTR  
Create-icc.  I know that GM has restrictions on the distribution of  
icc profiles made with their software and the i1 spectrophotometer,  
but I don't know if there is a legal problem in this situation where  
3rd party software (Roy's Create-icc script) is used to generate  
grayscale icc profiles.

Carl

On Nov 22, 2005, at 12:36 PM, Steve Kale wrote:

> As I proposed this some time ago I guess I owe an explanation as to  
> why I
> haven't offered QTR ICC profiles to paid up QTR users.  The reason  
> is I use
> a 4800 with Eboni ink in the K slot so my setup is different.   
> Eboni makes a
> big difference (vs Epson MK).  The other factor is that like any  
> profile
> it's really only good for the printer that printed the test strip.
> Nonetheless I think people would see benefit from a profile even if  
> it's not
> perfect for their printer.  There are likely more 2400 users than  
> 4800 users
> though so how about someone with a 2400 and a spectrophotometer  
> pitching in
> some work for the paid up QTR users that don't own a densitometer!
>
> Probably the right solution is for people to post their QTR ICC  
> profiles for
> download (if they can).  I'm not sure Roy wants to manage a  
> library!!  Those
> who download the profiles and use them - even if they are not using  
> QTR -
> owe Roy his shareware fee.
>
> I did the 4800 QTR curves that come with the download - they also  
> assume the
> use of Eboni ink in the K slot - and I have QTR ICC profiles for  
> each curve.
> I'll post these for download later today here:
>
> http://homepage.mac.com/stevekale/stevekale2/FileSharing37.html
>
> I have not finished doing QTR ICC profiles for Adv B&W.
>
>
>> From: wwodets <odets@...>
>> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
>> Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 16:57:57 -0000
>> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
>> Subject: [Digital BW] Solving this BW tonal management issue . . .
>>
>> I've followed this entire thread about workspaces, tonal management,
>> etc. and what is most striking is how convoluted the non-managed
>> workflow is and how simple and reliable the QTR ICC workflow is.
>>
>> Clayton's recent experiment with gamma 2.2 is a laudable effort (the
>> highlights are this, the midtones are flat,etc.), but it is so
>> complex.  The reason it is complex is that it is an effort to use a
>> workspace as a printer profile, or said differently to try to make
>> the screen look like the printer output (with a given set of driver
>> settings like "light.").  What we really want to do is make the
>> printer output look like the screen.
>>
>> I have been through three workflows on the 2400, the last the QTR
>> Create ICC.  The first was an attempt to use the Epson ABW driver
>> controls to make the printer output match the screen.  This was very
>> complicated, very time-consuming and quite unreliable, and it had to
>> be repeated for each different paper.  The second workflow was more
>> like Clayton's, a "Gamma 2.2" workflow in which I used a PS "viewing
>> curve," a layer curve, to make the screen look like the printer
>> ouput.  Again, this was very time consuming to create, I was
>> constantly tweaking it because different images didn't display quite
>> right, and a new curve was needed for each paper.  Conceptually, the
>> first attempt was an effort at making the printer output look the
>> screen, but it was much too complex, inflexible and unreliable.  The
>> second attempt was an effort to make the screen look like the printer
>> output.  The third flow is the QTR Create ICC flow.  This is dead
>> simple to create and to use, and results are dead stable.  For a new
>> paper, a new profile is made, about a five minute job.  I feel like
>> I've been released from purgatory with this solution and I am saving
>> a small fortune in ink and paper.
>>
>> As nearly as I can discern, the resistance to the QTR Create ICC flow
>> is that it is unfamiliar, seems too technical and, most importantly,
>> requires the purchase of a densitometer or spectrometer.  The
>> familiarity should be there from color management, as the function is
>> the same.  The ICC workflow, in fact, requires a lot less technical
>> fiddling than other solutions, certainly for anything like the same
>> level of reliability and consistency.  The cost of the instrument
>> remains a problem.
>>
>> So, is there not someone out there with the time and inclination to
>> provide BW profiles for printer/ink/paper combinations?  This could
>> be done by charging a customer a "first time" or "royalty" fee of $50
>> for a profile, with this money going to Roy.  On top of that would be
>> an additional fee for the first profile and any additional profiles
>> (for other papers, etc.).  This is an idea whose time has come.  It
>> would expand Roy's income, it would relieve a tremendous amount of
>> suffering on earth, and it would cut into Epson's profits on wasted
>> ink and paper.
>>
>> Any takers on this?
>>
>> Walt
>>
>> P.S.  The one thing my suggestion leaves out is the issue of monitor
>> calibration, but I suspect the Adobe Gamma is plenty good enough for
>> this.  I have always used a calibrated monitor, so I'm not sure about