Digital BW, The Print

If you're using Roys software to actually careate the profile, there is not problem.  If you use the GM (or other software) to make the profiles, it will actually have the info in the profile.  That's how they know.
 
Tom Baker


Carl Schofield <scho@...> wrote:
I'm sort of in the same boat as Steve with my machines.  My 4000 is  
running a dual quad setup (piezo carbon sepia and k7 inks) which I  
don't think many people are using and I'm in the process of switching  
my 2400 over to MIS k4 inks.  I will make create-icc profiles for  
anyone that wants to send me a printed target made with their  
printer, inks, and BW workflow.   I can then easily measure the  
target, make, and return an icc profile by email.  I would not  
charge, but expect users to contribute to Roy for the use of QTR  
Create-icc.  I know that GM has restrictions on the distribution of  
icc profiles made with their software and the i1 spectrophotometer,  
but I don't know if there is a legal problem in this situation where  
3rd party software (Roy's Create-icc script) is used to generate  
grayscale icc profiles.

Carl

On Nov 22, 2005, at 12:36 PM, Steve Kale wrote:

> As I proposed this some time ago I guess I owe an explanation as to  
> why I
> haven't offered QTR ICC profiles to paid up QTR users.  The reason  
> is I use
> a 4800 with Eboni ink in the K slot so my setup is different.   
> Eboni makes a
> big difference (vs Epson MK).  The other factor is that like any  
> profile
> it's really only good for the printer that printed the test strip.
> Nonetheless I think people would see benefit from a profile even if  
> it's not
> perfect for their printer.  There are likely more 2400 users than  
> 4800 users
> though so how about someone with a 2400 and a spectrophotometer  
> pitching in
> some work for the paid up QTR users that don't own a densitometer!
>
> Probably the right solution is for people to post their QTR ICC  
> profiles for
> download (if they can).  I'm not sure Roy wants to manage a  
> library!!  Those
> who download the profiles and use them - even if they are not using  
> QTR -
> owe Roy his shareware fee.
>
> I did the 4800 QTR curves that come with the download - they also  
> assume the
> use of Eboni ink in the K slot - and I have QTR ICC profiles for  
> each curve.
> I'll post these for download later today here:
>
> http://homepage.mac.com/stevekale/stevekale2/FileSharing37.html
>
> I have not finished doing QTR ICC profiles for Adv B&W.
>
>
>> From: wwodets <odets@...>
>> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
>> Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 16:57:57 -0000
>> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
>> Subject: [Digital BW] Solving this BW tonal management issue . . .
>>
>> I've followed this entire thread about workspaces, tonal management,
>> etc. and what is most striking is how convoluted the non-managed
>> workflow is and how simple and reliable the QTR ICC workflow is.
>>
>> Clayton's recent experiment with gamma 2.2 is a laudable effort (the
>> highlights are this, the midtones are flat,etc.), but it is so
>> complex.  The reason it is complex is that it is an effort to use a
>> workspace as a printer profile, or said differently to try to make
>> the screen look like the printer output (with a given set of driver
>> settings like "light.").  What we really want to do is make the
>> printer output look like the screen.
>>
>> I have been through three workflows on the 2400, the last the QTR
>> Create ICC.  The first was an attempt to use the Epson ABW driver
>> controls to make the printer output match the screen.  This was very
>> complicated, very time-consuming and quite unreliable, and it had to
>> be repeated for each different paper.  The second workflow was more
>> like Clayton's, a "Gamma 2.2" workflow in which I used a PS "viewing
>> curve," a layer curve, to make the screen look like the printer
>> ouput.  Again, this was very time consuming to create, I was
>> constantly tweaking it because different images didn't display quite
>> right, and a new curve was needed for each paper.  Conceptually, the
>> first attempt was an effort at making the printer output look the
>> screen, but it was much too complex, inflexible and unreliable.  The
>> second attempt was an effort to make the screen look like the printer
>> output.  The third flow is the QTR Create ICC flow.  This is dead
>> simple to create and to use, and results are dead stable.  For a new
>> paper, a new profile is made, about a five minute job.  I feel like
>> I've been released from purgatory with this solution and I am saving
>> a small fortune in ink and paper.
>>
>> As nearly as I can discern, the resistance to the QTR Create ICC flow
>> is that it is unfamiliar, seems too technical and, most importantly,
>> requires the purchase of a densitometer or spectrometer.  The
>> familiarity should be there from color management, as the function is
>> the same.  The ICC workflow, in fact, requires a lot less technical
>> fiddling than other solutions, certainly for anything like the same
>> level of reliability and consistency.  The cost of the instrument
>> remains a problem.
>>
>> So, is there not someone out there with the time and inclination to
>> provide BW profiles for printer/ink/paper combinations?  This could
>> be done by charging a customer a "first time" or "royalty" fee of $50
>> for a profile, with this money going to Roy.  On top of that would be
>> an additional fee for the first profile and any additional profiles
>> (for other papers, etc.).  This is an idea whose time has come.  It
>> would expand Roy's income, it would relieve a tremendous amount of
>> suffering on earth, and it would cut into Epson's profits on wasted
>> ink and paper.
>>
>> Any takers on this?
>>
>> Walt
>>
>> P.S.  The one thing my suggestion leaves out is the issue of monitor
>> calibration, but I suspect the Adobe Gamma is plenty good enough for
>> this.  I have always used a calibrated monitor, so I'm not sure about



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.




---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS 


    Visit your group "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint" on the web.
  
    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
  
    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 


---------------------------------




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]