Digital BW, The Print

Brian,

(Catching up on the e-mails here ...)

With respect to the workflow, I was just looking at the printing.  It sounds
like you're using "Color Controls" set to 0.  It also sounds like when you
print in Gamma 2.2 the problem is less.  That might be consistent with my
thoughts.

The Epson driver when set to "Color Controls" holds back some of the midtone
inks.  I've never tested it, but logically, if those inks are operating
under a lower ink limit, they may not cover the black ink dots as well when
that ink starts.  That's why I suggested you try the "No Color Adjustment"
driver setting.  It'll be too dark, but you can correct that with a
Photoshop curve or an ICC made with Roy's "Create ICC" program.  This latter
route would be what I recommend.  It would have the additional benefit of
making the print match the monitor.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 


> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian
> Chapman
> Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 11:16 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Transitions
> 
> Hey Paul,
> 
> Thanks for the info.  The workflow I'm using is:
> 
> 1.  Open image in 16 bit RGB (Adobe 1998) from the RAW file
> 2.  Make adjustments including channel mixing for conversion to B&W
> 3.  Flatten the image
> 4.  Convert to Greyscale (current profile is DG20 for default)
> 5.  Print with Preview using printer driver gamma 1.8 and the EEM 2.2
> profile (the results are pretty close with or without the profile in
> this case).
> 
> I have had much better results in the last couple of days assinging
> the Gray Gamma 2.2 profile (which displays darker on my monitor) and
> then adding an adjustment layer (levels) and increasing brightness to
> gamma 1.25 (from 1.00) and then printing using the EEM 2.2 profile and
> printer driver gamma 2.2.  The results are much smoother and more how
> I expect (want) them to look.
> 
> It's somewhat confusing though because 'assigning' the profile doesn't
> really do anything except let me look at the image darker on screen -
> the real difference in the print is from using the darker printer
> gamma (2.2) and the adjustment layer prior to printing...is this
> correct?  If it works better this way does it mean that something else
> is not configured correctly somewhere else in my workflow?
> 
> I don't use any of the color controls - I mean they're "on" but all at
> zero.
> 
> Again, many thanks!!!
> 
> Brian
> http://www.brianchapmanphotography.com
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
> <paul.roark@...> wrote:
> >
> > Brian,
> >
> > I'm not real sure what workflow you're using.  But, it sounds like the
> > problems could be with the dark ink(s) being injected by the printer
> before
> > there is enough of the lighter ink to hide them. If the problem is
> due to
> > the dark grays, I'd expect them to show up closer to 60%.  If they
> were both
> > being injected at about the same time due to a grayscale workflow,
> some RGB
> > curves might be able to separate where in the image the crossover
> occurs.
> > Since the problem area is further down, I'd guess it's the black ink
> being
> > injected before the dark grey inks can hide it.  If the workflow you're
> > using includes the driver being set to "Color Controls" I'd consider
> > switching that to No Color Adjustment.  That allows the midtones to
> go all
> > the way up to their maximum ink limit.  The print might be too dark,
> so a
> > grayscale curve or using Create ICC to linearize the system might be
> needed.
> >
> > This is sort of a guess, but it might be worth a try.
> >
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Brian
> > > Chapman
> > > Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 10:17 AM
> > > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [Digital BW] Transitions
> > >
> > > In a previous post I mentioned the "stepped" transitions between areas
> > > of light and dark in some of the images I have tried printing.
> > >
> > > Here's a link to one of the previous messages:
> > >
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/7715
> > > 1
> > >
> > > Some additional experimenting and learning has led me to believe that
> > > the transitions between dark and light in a general sense were only
> > > part of what I was seeing.  The real issue is between different
> > > densities of dark where the mixes of ink changes.  When I printed out
> > > the step wedges from Paul's site (on EEM using Pauls profile for EEM
> > > and Gamma 2.2 for the printer driver gamma setting) I noticed there
> > > are a couple of "transition" density levels where the different mixes
> > > of ink show up more obviously than others - between 70 & 80% and again
> > > between 80 and 90%.
> > >
> > > For 99% of images this isn't an issue but in images where the sky is
> > > very dark and therefore has large areas where those transitions
> > > mentioned above occur it becomes visible - almost like a line across
> > > the page wherever those transitions occur.  (It's much easier to see
> > > the transitions on wide areas where it occurs - I didn't notice it
> > > when I was printing test strips (1"x8") from the center of the image
> > > below.  This result doesn't occur with BO printing because it's all
> > > the same ink.
> > >
> > > Here is an example:
> > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/brianechapman/75838437/
> > >
> > > Does anyone have any suggestions to reduce the effect?
> > >
> > > Sorry for the long post, I just wanted to make sure I gave enough
> info!
> > >
> > > Thanks!!
> > >
> > > Brian
> > > http://www.brianchapmanphotography.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
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> > >
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the Files
> section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND
> “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
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