Digital BW, The Print

Paul,

I *finally* got around to trying your suggestion!  The result (with 
no adjustment curve or icc) seemed like it was ok, but when I tried 
to create curve to correct for the darker print it really looked bad 
(very harsh transitions).  Obviously it wasn't as simple as I had 
hoped :)  So I think I'm going to stop worrying about it until I get 
the QTR program and have more control of what's happening!  

One other thing...I've heard the term 'linearize' a lot recently but 
I can't figure out what it means in the context of printing...can 
anyone explain?  Is it basically creating a calibrated workflow all 
the way through?  

Thanks, 

Brian
http://www.brianchapmanphotography.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@...> wrote:
>
> Brian,
> 
> (Catching up on the e-mails here ...)
> 
> With respect to the workflow, I was just looking at the printing.  
It sounds
> like you're using "Color Controls" set to 0.  It also sounds like 
when you
> print in Gamma 2.2 the problem is less.  That might be consistent 
with my
> thoughts.
> 
> The Epson driver when set to "Color Controls" holds back some of 
the midtone
> inks.  I've never tested it, but logically, if those inks are 
operating
> under a lower ink limit, they may not cover the black ink dots as 
well when
> that ink starts.  That's why I suggested you try the "No Color 
Adjustment"
> driver setting.  It'll be too dark, but you can correct that with a
> Photoshop curve or an ICC made with Roy's "Create ICC" program.  
This latter
> route would be what I recommend.  It would have the additional 
benefit of
> making the print match the monitor.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf 
Of Brian
> > Chapman
> > Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 11:16 AM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Transitions
> > 
> > Hey Paul,
> > 
> > Thanks for the info.  The workflow I'm using is:
> > 
> > 1.  Open image in 16 bit RGB (Adobe 1998) from the RAW file
> > 2.  Make adjustments including channel mixing for conversion to 
B&W
> > 3.  Flatten the image
> > 4.  Convert to Greyscale (current profile is DG20 for default)
> > 5.  Print with Preview using printer driver gamma 1.8 and the 
EEM 2.2
> > profile (the results are pretty close with or without the 
profile in
> > this case).
> > 
> > I have had much better results in the last couple of days 
assinging
> > the Gray Gamma 2.2 profile (which displays darker on my monitor) 
and
> > then adding an adjustment layer (levels) and increasing 
brightness to
> > gamma 1.25 (from 1.00) and then printing using the EEM 2.2 
profile and
> > printer driver gamma 2.2.  The results are much smoother and 
more how
> > I expect (want) them to look.
> > 
> > It's somewhat confusing though because 'assigning' the profile 
doesn't
> > really do anything except let me look at the image darker on 
screen -
> > the real difference in the print is from using the darker printer
> > gamma (2.2) and the adjustment layer prior to printing...is this
> > correct?  If it works better this way does it mean that 
something else
> > is not configured correctly somewhere else in my workflow?
> > 
> > I don't use any of the color controls - I mean they're "on" but 
all at
> > zero.
> > 
> > Again, many thanks!!!
> > 
> > Brian
> > http://www.brianchapmanphotography.com
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
> > <paul.roark@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Brian,
> > >
> > > I'm not real sure what workflow you're using.  But, it sounds 
like the
> > > problems could be with the dark ink(s) being injected by the 
printer
> > before
> > > there is enough of the lighter ink to hide them. If the 
problem is
> > due to
> > > the dark grays, I'd expect them to show up closer to 60%.  If 
they
> > were both
> > > being injected at about the same time due to a grayscale 
workflow,
> > some RGB
> > > curves might be able to separate where in the image the 
crossover
> > occurs.
> > > Since the problem area is further down, I'd guess it's the 
black ink
> > being
> > > injected before the dark grey inks can hide it.  If the 
workflow you're
> > > using includes the driver being set to "Color Controls" I'd 
consider
> > > switching that to No Color Adjustment.  That allows the 
midtones to
> > go all
> > > the way up to their maximum ink limit.  The print might be too 
dark,
> > so a
> > > grayscale curve or using Create ICC to linearize the system 
might be
> > needed.
> > >
> > > This is sort of a guess, but it might be worth a try.
> > >
> > > Paul
> > > www.PaulRoark.com
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > > > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On 
Behalf Of
> > Brian
> > > > Chapman
> > > > Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 10:17 AM
> > > > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [Digital BW] Transitions
> > > >
> > > > In a previous post I mentioned the "stepped" transitions 
between areas
> > > > of light and dark in some of the images I have tried 
printing.
> > > >
> > > > Here's a link to one of the previous messages:
> > > >
> > 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/77
15
> > > > 1
> > > >
> > > > Some additional experimenting and learning has led me to 
believe that
> > > > the transitions between dark and light in a general sense 
were only
> > > > part of what I was seeing.  The real issue is between 
different
> > > > densities of dark where the mixes of ink changes.  When I 
printed out
> > > > the step wedges from Paul's site (on EEM using Pauls profile 
for EEM
> > > > and Gamma 2.2 for the printer driver gamma setting) I 
noticed there
> > > > are a couple of "transition" density levels where the 
different mixes
> > > > of ink show up more obviously than others - between 70 & 80% 
and again
> > > > between 80 and 90%.
> > > >
> > > > For 99% of images this isn't an issue but in images where 
the sky is
> > > > very dark and therefore has large areas where those 
transitions
> > > > mentioned above occur it becomes visible - almost like a 
line across
> > > > the page wherever those transitions occur.  (It's much 
easier to see
> > > > the transitions on wide areas where it occurs - I didn't 
notice it
> > > > when I was printing test strips (1"x8") from the center of 
the image
> > > > below.  This result doesn't occur with BO printing because 
it's all
> > > > the same ink.
> > > >
> > > > Here is an example:
> > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/brianechapman/75838437/
> > > >
> > > > Does anyone have any suggestions to reduce the effect?
> > > >
> > > > Sorry for the long post, I just wanted to make sure I gave 
enough
> > info!
> > > >
> > > > Thanks!!
> > > >
> > > > Brian
> > > > http://www.brianchapmanphotography.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to keep
> > them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
flames.
> > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from 
the
> > membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
digital B&W
> > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
removed from
> > the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules 
and
> > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the 
group Owner
> > and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the 
Files
> > section:
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> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, 
THE PRINT
> > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" 
AND
> > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
LIABLE TO
> > YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL 
OR
> > EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR 
LOSS OF
> > PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF 
THE
> > "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP 
HAVE BEEN
> > ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) 
THE USE
> > OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; 
(ii)
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DATA; (iii)
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PRINT
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BW, THE
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