Digital BW, The Print

Well, since I inadvertantly started this crazy thread about initials after 
your
name perhaps I can address some of the responses :
1) Being new to  forum interchanges, I did not realize that the signature 
plate in
   my email system transfered while responding.   My sig plate it intended
    for potential customers and "yes" it is a marketing tool which helps to 
instill
    "trust" with a client.  This is extremely important in the 
portrait/wedding/commericial
    fields which is my core business.   The way people make purchase 
decisions
    has changed dramatically in the last 30 years, couple that with the 
dramatic increase
    of "semi" pros and the average consumer has little to go on except for 
how we
    communicate our skill sets.  EVERYONE has 20 or 30 cool photos and can
    create the illusion of knowing what they're doing on a website!!!!
2) The real point of all of this is staying solvent in our business. 
Organizations
    like the PPA are set up for the members to essentially stay in business.
    So I'd say 70% of instructional seminars are devoted to marketing,
    merchandising, and computer workflow issues.  In addition, PPA is the 
only organization
    that I know of that has the clout to lobby Congress on the copyright 
laws that affect as all.
3) Competitions are a double edged sword: they are what each person makes 
them to be.
    You can compete as "copy cat"  or you can push yourself to go to the 
edge.   And since
    most judges are now critiqued as well, many of the incompetent judges 
are being replaced.
    Competition itself is natural: we compete for space, for jobs, for 
women, for free time,
     for Nobel prizes, for Pultizer prizes, for ad space, and for love.
4) Credentials like the Certified Professional Photographer (CPP) is an 
earned designation
  awarded by the PPA after passing a series of tests and after a portfolio 
assessment by a jury
  of peers. So when a client is interviewing me for a job I bring this up 
and explain the significance
  of the certification.  Again trying to generate " trust" without sounding 
like prima donna BS artist.
    It's like do you take your BMW to the corner garage or to a "certified 
factory trained"  kick a**"
    mechanic?
5) So how does all this relate to the fine art world of galleries and 
showing our most creative stuff?
    I'm not sure yet but the second gallery owner I talked to knew about the 
"spyder awards" and
    seemed impressed that I copped one of the awards.  We'll see...but as 
long as people who are in
    charge of the money that I need (to stay in photography) respond 
favorably to credentials then
    I say "why not"....it's the American way.
6) Thanks to all who actually responded to my inquiry about "blacks in the 
printing process"...very helpful.





----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Eric Neilsen Photo " <e.neilsen2@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 4:16 PM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Initials following a photographer's name


I would say that the PPA has been struggling for years to elevate the
perception of the organization from "glorified camera club". There may be
some merit to the competitions and levels of accomplishment that are
bestowed upon those in the group. But from all that I have seen, the work
suffers from lack of imagination, be that from the photographers or the
judges. If one strives to get accolades from those types of groups, so be
it. And if from within the construct of that group, they can bring a sense
of pride in their work, great.

But if there is one thing that says a thousand words, all of course spelled
and punctuated however the view sees fit, is a photograph. How many of those
viewers really know what go on to create it, is unimportant. Rather, what
they see is what they like; either to simply view or to be viewed like that.

Who would you rather sell your work to? Some that truly appreciates the work
for what it is or for the honor of owning one done by a %$^)*)*(&%#, of the
PPA or ________?

I'll sell my to those that like the work.

Eric Neilsen Photography
4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9
Dallas, TX 75226
214-827-8301
http://ericneilsenphotography.com

Skype : ejprinter
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Mark Savoia
> Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 11:00 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Initials following a photographer's
> name
>
> I think you are missing my point. I was only stating what my
> customers (pro photographers) were saying.
>
> The competition thing may contain better quality then the work
> I saw
> being judged, but the way the judges knocked off points for
> things as
> silly as the head in a portrait was not at the "correct" angle
> made
> me want to agree with my customers.
>
> I am more interested in knowing if the letters really do work
> as a
> marketing tool.
> Mark
>
> On Aug 4, 2006, at 10:49 AM, ggeorgesnc wrote:
>
> > Usually those that laugh at all the initials following a
> > photographer's name are those that cannot successfully
> compete against
> > other photographers. The objective for most of these
> competitions is
> > to challenge photographers to push their craft to a higher
> level, and
> > to gain recognition for their work--by their peers.
> >
> > If you take a quick look at the Spider Award Website at:
> >
> > http://www.thespiderawards.com/
> >
> > you will see some of the most amazing black and white
> photography that
> > can be found. Any one can enter the competition and there is
> a good
> > selection of judges to make a fair and reasonable assessment
> of the
> > work. Who would not want to be like Lance and have won one of
> these
> > awards? Even more--how about as many awards as Lance has won?
> >
> > I also suggest that you look at the quality of the work shown
> on the
> > PPA Website at:
> >
> > http://www.ppa.com/
> >
> > Or, you can order a book with the winning prints from many of
> the
> > competitions that Lance has awards from by visiting:
> >
> > http://www.marathonpress.com/default.php/cPath/62_65
> >
> > These books offer some of the most outstanding photographs
> that can be
> > found in the world. If you are good enough to compete for
> these awards
> > and you can win, why not have the initials after your name.
> Every
> > photographer should have at least one of these books just to
> see what
> > level photographers are achieving with the new digital
> technologies.
> >
> > Many excellent photographers do not compete and that is okay
> too. In
> > the past, I have not entered a single competition. However,
> after
> > publishing nine books, doing well-over a dozen workshops, I
> now wish I
> > had all the initials after my name like Lance does--it gives
> you
> > credibility among your peers--and you will make more money.
> >
> > Who would not want initials?
> >
> > Gregory Georges
> > www.gregorygeorges.com
> > www.gregorygeorges.com/gallery/gallery20
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark
> Savoia
> > <mark@...> wrote:
> >>
> >> I am not trying to be a wise ass, but many of the pro
> photographers
> >> we deal with think of these as just just glorified camera
> clubs that
> >> you pay dues to, compete against each other, and when you
> win enough
> >> stuff they let you add letters after your name. I went to a
> couple of
> >> meetings to see what it was all about and the competition
> rules
> >> seemed completely ridiculous, they allowed for no "outside
> the box"
> >> thinking. After seeing that, I kind of agreed with my
> clients.
> >>
> >> So is it JUST a marketing tool?
> >>
> >> Mark B.M.O.C.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
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> >
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Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as 
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to 
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same 
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep 
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. 
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the 
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W 
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from 
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and 
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
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BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND 
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU 
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY 
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, 
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND 
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE 
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY 
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR 
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY 
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

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