Yahoo Groups archive
Thread
2006-08-03 by lancephoto99
I'm getting ready to purchase an Epson 4800 for my first venture into fineart B&W printing. Prior to this a professional with 30 years in chemical print making. Is it true that you get better, richer blacks using matte finish papers with K3 pigments than with lustre finish papers??? This is the opposite of the chemical world ! If true, what's the physics here? Thanks
2006-08-03 by Greg
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "lancephoto99" <lancephoto@...> wrote: > > I'm getting ready to purchase an Epson 4800 for my first venture > into fineart B&W printing. Prior to this a professional with 30 > years in chemical print making. Is it true that you get better, > richer blacks using matte finish papers with K3 pigments than with > lustre finish papers??? This is the opposite of the chemical world ! > If true, what's the physics here? > Thanks > No, the same physics applies to both types of printing. Luster and gloss papers have a better dmax.
2006-08-03 by Mark Rabiner
cal print making. Is it true that you get better, >> richer blacks using matte finish papers with K3 pigments than with >> lustre finish papers??? This is the opposite of the chemical world ! >> If true, what's the physics here? >> Thanks >> > > No, the same physics applies to both types of printing. Luster and > gloss papers have a better dmax. > But there are also intangibles or non obvious variables... For instance the photographic printing process most famous for its blacks hands down is Platinum printing. Platinum prints. That's a matt process. Flat Mat. Mat Black, Mat Board, Mat Helm, Mat Damon. Reason? Does a Dmax "reading" with a Dmaxometer bare this out? I seem to recall maybe it doesn't. But the PERCEPTION of the blacks wins out in our hearts and minds eyes. Well from what I can tell the physics of the metals which comprise the image being what they are are ON TOP of all substrates. No gelatin between you and the image comprising elements. Keeping all substrates sub; which where they belong in the first place if you ask me. :) The elements being platinum and palladium. (Atomic # 78 and 46:) In the Platinum printing word spraying is widely wildly discouraged. Not done. And sure Verethane the thing and the blacks just might get blacker. I have, and from some bad experiences way back, very down on over-sprays, waxing, dry mounting - anything that could otherwise shorten the life of an otherwise extremely long lasting elegant print process. I know some on this list do not share that opinion. But I agree with most of my opinions. The inkjet processes to me has an advantage as the pigment can be pretty much on top. The first thing you see. Nothing gumming up your perception of the image. Mark Rabiner
2006-08-03 by dlruckus
The physics are exactly the same and instruments will show higher d'max on gloss and luster papers with equivalent ink loads. Richer is somewhat subjective however so it's a more personal call there and highly variable with different matt papers. It's not unusual IMHO for a so-so gloss paper with a measured 2.1 or so d'max to visually look wimpishly gray next to an excellent matt with a mere 1.7-1.8. I believe you will be astonished at the variety of beautiful papers available as compared to what you were used to. Some here report having achieved in the 2.5 and better d'maxs with gloss. Regards Duane --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "lancephoto99" <lancephoto@...> wrote:
> > I'm getting ready to purchase an Epson 4800 for my first venture > into fineart B&W printing. Prior to this a professional with 30 > years in chemical print making. Is it true that you get better, > richer blacks using matte finish papers with K3 pigments than with > lustre finish papers??? This is the opposite of the chemical world ! > If true, what's the physics here? > Thanks >
2006-08-03 by Lance Richardson
Thanks...very helpful. Lance Richardson, F.Ph., CPP Lance Richardson Photography Associates 1600 East Franklin Street # 100 Chapel Hill, NC 27514 919.942.4044 www.LanceRichardson.com (currently under revision) National Awards: Spyder Award Fine Art Division: 2005 Kodak "Gallery " Award: 2005, 2000 FijiFilm "Masterpiece" Award: 2000, 2001 PPA Display Award: 2006,2005, 2004, 2003
----- Original Message ----- From: "dlruckus" <dlruckus@...> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 2:39 PM Subject: [Digital BW] Re: The Best Blacks The physics are exactly the same and instruments will show higher d'max on gloss and luster papers with equivalent ink loads. Richer is somewhat subjective however so it's a more personal call there and highly variable with different matt papers. It's not unusual IMHO for a so-so gloss paper with a measured 2.1 or so d'max to visually look wimpishly gray next to an excellent matt with a mere 1.7-1.8. I believe you will be astonished at the variety of beautiful papers available as compared to what you were used to. Some here report having achieved in the 2.5 and better d'maxs with gloss. Regards Duane --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "lancephoto99" <lancephoto@...> wrote: > > I'm getting ready to purchase an Epson 4800 for my first venture > into fineart B&W printing. Prior to this a professional with 30 > years in chemical print making. Is it true that you get better, > richer blacks using matte finish papers with K3 pigments than with > lustre finish papers??? This is the opposite of the chemical world ! > If true, what's the physics here? > Thanks > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. Please follow these basic guidelines: - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. Yahoo! Groups Links
2006-08-03 by Ken Carney
> The inkjet processes to me has an advantage as the pigment can be pretty > much on top. The first thing you see. Nothing gumming up your perception > of > the image. > > Mark Rabiner That is an interesting observation. Maybe the inkjet RC papers would thus be better than the crappy multi-layer darkroom RC papers, which always seemed to have a haze. I have done a lot of pt/pd printing, and always thought one of the advantages was that with pt/pd the image was "in" the paper instead of "on" the paper. However, that may have been "in" the emulsion, e.g., double coating pure palladium seemed better than single coating. I do know that differences between real pt/pd prints and inkjet prints on decent matt papers tend to blur, once behind glass. Regards, Ken Carney www.kencarney.com
2006-08-04 by Ken Carney
Lance, Just curious and forgive my ignorance, but I was wondering what the designations F.Ph. and CPP were and how one obtains them. The Kodak gallery award looks really interesting - lots of nice images on their site. Thanks. Regards, Ken Carney www.kencarney.com
> -----Original Message----- > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lance > Richardson > Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 1:52 PM > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: The Best Blacks > > Thanks...very helpful. > > Lance Richardson, F.Ph., CPP > Lance Richardson Photography Associates > 1600 East Franklin Street # 100 > Chapel Hill, NC 27514 > 919.942.4044 > www.LanceRichardson.com (currently under revision) > > National Awards: > Spyder Award Fine Art Division: 2005 > Kodak "Gallery " Award: 2005, 2000 > FijiFilm "Masterpiece" Award: 2000, 2001 > PPA Display Award: 2006,2005, 2004, 2003 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "dlruckus" <dlruckus@...> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 2:39 PM > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: The Best Blacks > > > The physics are exactly the same and instruments will show higher > d'max on gloss and luster papers with equivalent ink loads. Richer is > somewhat subjective however so it's a more personal call there and > highly variable with different matt papers. It's not unusual IMHO for > a so-so gloss paper with a measured 2.1 or so d'max to visually look > wimpishly gray next to an excellent matt with a mere 1.7-1.8. I > believe you will be astonished at the variety of beautiful papers > available as compared to what you were used to. Some here report > having achieved in the 2.5 and better d'maxs with gloss. > > Regards > Duane > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "lancephoto99" > <lancephoto@...> wrote: > > > > I'm getting ready to purchase an Epson 4800 for my first venture > > into fineart B&W printing. Prior to this a professional with 30 > > years in chemical print making. Is it true that you get better, > > richer blacks using matte finish papers with K3 pigments than with > > lustre finish papers??? This is the opposite of the chemical world ! > > If true, what's the physics here? > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as > they are often being updated. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same > page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep > them short. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the > membership without notice. > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from > the membership. > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner > and > Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO > YOU > FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY > DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, > GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE > POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY > TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO > OR > ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF > ANY > THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER > MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as > they are often being updated. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same > page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep > them short. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the > membership without notice. > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from > the membership. > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner > and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files > section: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO > YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR > EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF > PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE > "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN > ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE > OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) > UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) > STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT > YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE > PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >
2006-08-04 by Greg
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Rabiner <mark@...> wrote: > Does a Dmax "reading" with a Dmaxometer bare this out? I seem to recall > maybe it doesn't. But the PERCEPTION of the blacks wins out in our hearts > and minds eyes. > I was almost going to add that "man(kind) does not live by dmax alone" in my post above, but I was being lazy.
2006-08-04 by Lance Richardson
Ken, The "F.Ph" is an honorary Fellowship Degree in Photography awarded by the Professional Photographers of North Carolina Association. It's an earned degree awarded after accumulating a large number of competition points at our yearly convention. The CPP is a Certified Professional Photographer designation awarded by the PPA to members who pass a peer review of images and technical information. Once awarded your have to maintain various continuing education courses or convention programs during a 5 year time frame. I use this as a marketing tool w/ clients, galleries, or my wife who has fewer letters after her name than I do.......................... Tkae care and thanks for feed back, Lance Richardson, F.Ph., CPP Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: The Best Blacks Lance, Just curious and forgive my ignorance, but I was wondering what the designations F.Ph. and CPP were and how one obtains them. The Kodak gallery award looks really interesting - lots of nice images on their site. Thanks. Regards, Ken Carney www.kencarney.com
> -----Original Message----- > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: The Best Blacks > > Thanks...very helpful. > > Lance Richardson, F.Ph., CPP > Lance Richardson Photography Associates > 1600 East Franklin Street # 100 > Chapel Hill, NC 27514 > 919.942.4044 > www.LanceRichardson.com (currently under revision) > > National Awards: > Spyder Award Fine Art Division: 2005 > Kodak "Gallery " Award: 2005, 2000 > FijiFilm "Masterpiece" Award: 2000, 2001 > PPA Display Award: 2006,2005, 2004, 2003 > > >
2006-08-04 by Mark Savoia
I am not trying to be a wise ass, but many of the pro photographers we deal with think of these as just just glorified camera clubs that you pay dues to, compete against each other, and when you win enough stuff they let you add letters after your name. I went to a couple of meetings to see what it was all about and the competition rules seemed completely ridiculous, they allowed for no "outside the box" thinking. After seeing that, I kind of agreed with my clients. So is it JUST a marketing tool? Mark B.M.O.C.
On Aug 4, 2006, at 9:35 AM, Lance Richardson wrote: > Ken, > The "F.Ph" is an honorary Fellowship Degree in Photography awarded > by the > Professional Photographers of North Carolina Association. > It's an earned degree awarded after accumulating a large number of > competition points at our yearly convention. > The CPP is a Certified Professional Photographer designation > awarded by the > PPA to members who pass a peer review > of images and technical information. Once awarded your have to > maintain > various continuing education courses or convention programs > during a 5 year time frame. > I use this as a marketing tool w/ clients, galleries, or my wife > who has > fewer letters after her name than I do.......................... > Tkae care and thanks for feed back, > > Lance Richardson, F.Ph., CPP >
2006-08-04 by ggeorgesnc
Usually those that laugh at all the initials following a photographer's name are those that cannot successfully compete against other photographers. The objective for most of these competitions is to challenge photographers to push their craft to a higher level, and to gain recognition for their work--by their peers. If you take a quick look at the Spider Award Website at: http://www.thespiderawards.com/ you will see some of the most amazing black and white photography that can be found. Any one can enter the competition and there is a good selection of judges to make a fair and reasonable assessment of the work. Who would not want to be like Lance and have won one of these awards? Even more--how about as many awards as Lance has won? I also suggest that you look at the quality of the work shown on the PPA Website at: http://www.ppa.com/ Or, you can order a book with the winning prints from many of the competitions that Lance has awards from by visiting: http://www.marathonpress.com/default.php/cPath/62_65 These books offer some of the most outstanding photographs that can be found in the world. If you are good enough to compete for these awards and you can win, why not have the initials after your name. Every photographer should have at least one of these books just to see what level photographers are achieving with the new digital technologies. Many excellent photographers do not compete and that is okay too. In the past, I have not entered a single competition. However, after publishing nine books, doing well-over a dozen workshops, I now wish I had all the initials after my name like Lance does--it gives you credibility among your peers--and you will make more money. Who would not want initials? Gregory Georges www.gregorygeorges.com www.gregorygeorges.com/gallery/gallery20 --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia <mark@...> wrote:
> > I am not trying to be a wise ass, but many of the pro photographers > we deal with think of these as just just glorified camera clubs that > you pay dues to, compete against each other, and when you win enough > stuff they let you add letters after your name. I went to a couple of > meetings to see what it was all about and the competition rules > seemed completely ridiculous, they allowed for no "outside the box" > thinking. After seeing that, I kind of agreed with my clients. > > So is it JUST a marketing tool? > > Mark B.M.O.C. >
2006-08-04 by Lance Richardson
Mark, The PPA has a membership of about 8,000 hard working pros, hardly a camera club! Your remarks are NOT appropriate for a serious forum addressing improving the craft and art of image making!
----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Savoia" <mark@...> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 9:48 AM Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: The Best Blacks I am not trying to be a wise ass, but many of the pro photographers we deal with think of these as just just glorified camera clubs that you pay dues to, compete against each other, and when you win enough stuff they let you add letters after your name. I went to a couple of meetings to see what it was all about and the competition rules seemed completely ridiculous, they allowed for no "outside the box" thinking. After seeing that, I kind of agreed with my clients. So is it JUST a marketing tool? Mark B.M.O.C.
2006-08-04 by Mark Savoia
Lance, I was only relating what my customers have told me. It was more of a question of does adding the letters on the end of your name really work as a marketing tool? Mark
On Aug 4, 2006, at 11:00 AM, Lance Richardson wrote: > Mark, > The PPA has a membership of about 8,000 hard working pros, > hardly a camera club! Your remarks are NOT appropriate > for a serious forum addressing improving the craft and art of image > making!
2006-08-04 by Gary W. Weaver
I'm not trying to flame either, but the AMA, PPA, and all the rest are NOT above question. gar
-----Original Message----- From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Lance Richardson Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 8:00 AM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: The Best Blacks Mark, The PPA has a membership of about 8,000 hard working pros, hardly a camera club! Your remarks are NOT appropriate for a serious forum addressing improving the craft and art of image making! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Savoia" <mark@ctphoto.com> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 9:48 AM Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: The Best Blacks I am not trying to be a wise ass, but many of the pro photographers we deal with think of these as just just glorified camera clubs that you pay dues to, compete against each other, and when you win enough stuff they let you add letters after your name. I went to a couple of meetings to see what it was all about and the competition rules seemed completely ridiculous, they allowed for no "outside the box" thinking. After seeing that, I kind of agreed with my clients. So is it JUST a marketing tool? Mark B.M.O.C. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2006-08-04 by Mark Savoia
I think you are missing my point. I was only stating what my customers (pro photographers) were saying. The competition thing may contain better quality then the work I saw being judged, but the way the judges knocked off points for things as silly as the head in a portrait was not at the "correct" angle made me want to agree with my customers. I am more interested in knowing if the letters really do work as a marketing tool. Mark
On Aug 4, 2006, at 10:49 AM, ggeorgesnc wrote: > Usually those that laugh at all the initials following a > photographer's name are those that cannot successfully compete against > other photographers. The objective for most of these competitions is > to challenge photographers to push their craft to a higher level, and > to gain recognition for their work--by their peers. > > If you take a quick look at the Spider Award Website at: > > http://www.thespiderawards.com/ > > you will see some of the most amazing black and white photography that > can be found. Any one can enter the competition and there is a good > selection of judges to make a fair and reasonable assessment of the > work. Who would not want to be like Lance and have won one of these > awards? Even more--how about as many awards as Lance has won? > > I also suggest that you look at the quality of the work shown on the > PPA Website at: > > http://www.ppa.com/ > > Or, you can order a book with the winning prints from many of the > competitions that Lance has awards from by visiting: > > http://www.marathonpress.com/default.php/cPath/62_65 > > These books offer some of the most outstanding photographs that can be > found in the world. If you are good enough to compete for these awards > and you can win, why not have the initials after your name. Every > photographer should have at least one of these books just to see what > level photographers are achieving with the new digital technologies. > > Many excellent photographers do not compete and that is okay too. In > the past, I have not entered a single competition. However, after > publishing nine books, doing well-over a dozen workshops, I now wish I > had all the initials after my name like Lance does--it gives you > credibility among your peers--and you will make more money. > > Who would not want initials? > > Gregory Georges > www.gregorygeorges.com > www.gregorygeorges.com/gallery/gallery20 > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia > <mark@...> wrote: >> >> I am not trying to be a wise ass, but many of the pro photographers >> we deal with think of these as just just glorified camera clubs that >> you pay dues to, compete against each other, and when you win enough >> stuff they let you add letters after your name. I went to a couple of >> meetings to see what it was all about and the competition rules >> seemed completely ridiculous, they allowed for no "outside the box" >> thinking. After seeing that, I kind of agreed with my clients. >> >> So is it JUST a marketing tool? >> >> Mark B.M.O.C. >> > > > > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other > resources as they are often being updated. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you > wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by > visiting this same page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages > to keep them short. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or > flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed > from the membership without notice. > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital > B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be > removed from the membership. > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules > and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the > group Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” > in the Files section: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE > PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE > “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL > NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, > CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, > DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER > INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL > BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF > SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE > THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO > OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR > CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO > GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE > PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >
2006-08-04 by ggeorgesnc
No--I did not miss your point. Your customers (the pro photographers who have not succeeded in winning) will whine. The rules for judging are very straightforward--at least as staightforward as a subjective thing like judging art can be. It sounds as though you have professional photographers coming to you for some service. If you had a good set of initials after your name--it would help you in the eyes of those pros. They would simply think: wow! This guy is good enough to have won in spite of how they judge! Even if you do not win--you learn lots by having had your work judged. Rather than be annoyed, you can simply dismiss it and try again later. If you work is good--you will ultimately end up with the creditials that will help you. --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia <mark@...> wrote:
> > I think you are missing my point. I was only stating what my > customers (pro photographers) were saying. > > The competition thing may contain better quality then the work I saw > being judged, but the way the judges knocked off points for things as > silly as the head in a portrait was not at the "correct" angle made > me want to agree with my customers. > > I am more interested in knowing if the letters really do work as a > marketing tool. > Mark
2006-08-04 by Eric Neilsen Photo
I would say that the PPA has been struggling for years to elevate the perception of the organization from "glorified camera club". There may be some merit to the competitions and levels of accomplishment that are bestowed upon those in the group. But from all that I have seen, the work suffers from lack of imagination, be that from the photographers or the judges. If one strives to get accolades from those types of groups, so be it. And if from within the construct of that group, they can bring a sense of pride in their work, great. But if there is one thing that says a thousand words, all of course spelled and punctuated however the view sees fit, is a photograph. How many of those viewers really know what go on to create it, is unimportant. Rather, what they see is what they like; either to simply view or to be viewed like that. Who would you rather sell your work to? Some that truly appreciates the work for what it is or for the honor of owning one done by a %$^)*)*(&%#, of the PPA or ________? I'll sell my to those that like the work. Eric Neilsen Photography 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9 Dallas, TX 75226 214-827-8301 http://ericneilsenphotography.com Skype : ejprinter
> -----Original Message----- > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Mark Savoia > Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 11:00 AM > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Initials following a photographer's > name > > I think you are missing my point. I was only stating what my > customers (pro photographers) were saying. > > The competition thing may contain better quality then the work > I saw > being judged, but the way the judges knocked off points for > things as > silly as the head in a portrait was not at the "correct" angle > made > me want to agree with my customers. > > I am more interested in knowing if the letters really do work > as a > marketing tool. > Mark > > On Aug 4, 2006, at 10:49 AM, ggeorgesnc wrote: > > > Usually those that laugh at all the initials following a > > photographer's name are those that cannot successfully > compete against > > other photographers. The objective for most of these > competitions is > > to challenge photographers to push their craft to a higher > level, and > > to gain recognition for their work--by their peers. > > > > If you take a quick look at the Spider Award Website at: > > > > http://www.thespiderawards.com/ > > > > you will see some of the most amazing black and white > photography that > > can be found. Any one can enter the competition and there is > a good > > selection of judges to make a fair and reasonable assessment > of the > > work. Who would not want to be like Lance and have won one of > these > > awards? Even more--how about as many awards as Lance has won? > > > > I also suggest that you look at the quality of the work shown > on the > > PPA Website at: > > > > http://www.ppa.com/ > > > > Or, you can order a book with the winning prints from many of > the > > competitions that Lance has awards from by visiting: > > > > http://www.marathonpress.com/default.php/cPath/62_65 > > > > These books offer some of the most outstanding photographs > that can be > > found in the world. If you are good enough to compete for > these awards > > and you can win, why not have the initials after your name. > Every > > photographer should have at least one of these books just to > see what > > level photographers are achieving with the new digital > technologies. > > > > Many excellent photographers do not compete and that is okay > too. In > > the past, I have not entered a single competition. However, > after > > publishing nine books, doing well-over a dozen workshops, I > now wish I > > had all the initials after my name like Lance does--it gives > you > > credibility among your peers--and you will make more money. > > > > Who would not want initials? > > > > Gregory Georges > > www.gregorygeorges.com > > www.gregorygeorges.com/gallery/gallery20 > > > > > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark > Savoia > > <mark@...> wrote: > >> > >> I am not trying to be a wise ass, but many of the pro > photographers > >> we deal with think of these as just just glorified camera > clubs that > >> you pay dues to, compete against each other, and when you > win enough > >> stuff they let you add letters after your name. I went to a > couple of > >> meetings to see what it was all about and the competition > rules > >> seemed completely ridiculous, they allowed for no "outside > the box" > >> thinking. After seeing that, I kind of agreed with my > clients. > >> > >> So is it JUST a marketing tool? > >> > >> Mark B.M.O.C. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other > > resources as they are often being updated. > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or > you > > wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences > by > > visiting this same page. > > > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier > messages > > to keep them short. > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks > or > > flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be > removed > > from the membership without notice. > > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of > digital > > B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may > be > > removed from the membership. > > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group > rules > > and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of > the > > group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and > Guidelines" > > in the Files section: > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/file > s/ > > > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL > BW, THE > > PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT > THE > > "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP > SHALL > > NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, > SPECIAL, > > CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED > TO, > > DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER > > INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF > DIGITAL > > BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE > POSSIBILITY OF > > SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY > TO USE > > THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED > ACCESS TO > > OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS > OR > > CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO > > GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, > THE > > PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other > resources as they are often being updated. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you > wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by > visiting this same page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier > messages to keep them short. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or > flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be > removed from the membership without notice. > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of > digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic > posts may be removed from the membership. > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group > rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions > of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and > Guidelines" in the Files section: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/file > s/ > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, > THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT > THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO > GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, > INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, > INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, > GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE > "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP > HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), > RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL > BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR > ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR > CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO > GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE > PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >
2006-08-04 by Gary Brown
"Who would not want initials? " How about anyone that can see them for what they are, a sophomoric affectation. Gary Brown, WDGASwot. (if you want to know what my initials stand for, contact me directly) www.pbase.com/garyallenbrown baffin@...
2006-08-05 by dlruckus
To the general public---somewhat. But not nearly as well as smoozing at the club or Rotary will. Regards Duane --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia <mark@...> wrote:
> > I am more interested in knowing if the letters really do work as a > marketing tool. > Mark >
2006-08-05 by Claude
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" <dfaprinting@...> wrote: > I was almost going to add that "man(kind) does not live by dmax alone" > in my post above, but I was being lazy. > I agree that Dmax is not the be all, end all to a good print. I tried a paper that had the best Dmax of all (weird coating, so it wasn't completely matte) and the print looks like crap. What I like about the carbon prints on cotton is that they possess incredible value separation, which is lost if you laminate, which gives you greater Dmax. I know, I tried it and measure densities, etc. Crane Museo had the lowest Dmax alone (1.55) which jumped to 2.05 when laminated.....BUT all the tonal separation in the blacks were gone into one big Dmax lump. The smoothest prints I've ever seen are the ones Jon Cone gave me in NYC last year at Photo Plus. That guy get it right on the paper for sure. there are others here as well. Claude Jodoin
2006-08-05 by Lance Richardson
Well, since I inadvertantly started this crazy thread about initials after
your
name perhaps I can address some of the responses :
1) Being new to forum interchanges, I did not realize that the signature
plate in
my email system transfered while responding. My sig plate it intended
for potential customers and "yes" it is a marketing tool which helps to
instill
"trust" with a client. This is extremely important in the
portrait/wedding/commericial
fields which is my core business. The way people make purchase
decisions
has changed dramatically in the last 30 years, couple that with the
dramatic increase
of "semi" pros and the average consumer has little to go on except for
how we
communicate our skill sets. EVERYONE has 20 or 30 cool photos and can
create the illusion of knowing what they're doing on a website!!!!
2) The real point of all of this is staying solvent in our business.
Organizations
like the PPA are set up for the members to essentially stay in business.
So I'd say 70% of instructional seminars are devoted to marketing,
merchandising, and computer workflow issues. In addition, PPA is the
only organization
that I know of that has the clout to lobby Congress on the copyright
laws that affect as all.
3) Competitions are a double edged sword: they are what each person makes
them to be.
You can compete as "copy cat" or you can push yourself to go to the
edge. And since
most judges are now critiqued as well, many of the incompetent judges
are being replaced.
Competition itself is natural: we compete for space, for jobs, for
women, for free time,
for Nobel prizes, for Pultizer prizes, for ad space, and for love.
4) Credentials like the Certified Professional Photographer (CPP) is an
earned designation
awarded by the PPA after passing a series of tests and after a portfolio
assessment by a jury
of peers. So when a client is interviewing me for a job I bring this up
and explain the significance
of the certification. Again trying to generate " trust" without sounding
like prima donna BS artist.
It's like do you take your BMW to the corner garage or to a "certified
factory trained" kick a**"
mechanic?
5) So how does all this relate to the fine art world of galleries and
showing our most creative stuff?
I'm not sure yet but the second gallery owner I talked to knew about the
"spyder awards" and
seemed impressed that I copped one of the awards. We'll see...but as
long as people who are in
charge of the money that I need (to stay in photography) respond
favorably to credentials then
I say "why not"....it's the American way.
6) Thanks to all who actually responded to my inquiry about "blacks in the
printing process"...very helpful.----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Neilsen Photo " <e.neilsen2@...> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 4:16 PM Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Initials following a photographer's name I would say that the PPA has been struggling for years to elevate the perception of the organization from "glorified camera club". There may be some merit to the competitions and levels of accomplishment that are bestowed upon those in the group. But from all that I have seen, the work suffers from lack of imagination, be that from the photographers or the judges. If one strives to get accolades from those types of groups, so be it. And if from within the construct of that group, they can bring a sense of pride in their work, great. But if there is one thing that says a thousand words, all of course spelled and punctuated however the view sees fit, is a photograph. How many of those viewers really know what go on to create it, is unimportant. Rather, what they see is what they like; either to simply view or to be viewed like that. Who would you rather sell your work to? Some that truly appreciates the work for what it is or for the honor of owning one done by a %$^)*)*(&%#, of the PPA or ________? I'll sell my to those that like the work. Eric Neilsen Photography 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9 Dallas, TX 75226 214-827-8301 http://ericneilsenphotography.com Skype : ejprinter > -----Original Message----- > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Mark Savoia > Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 11:00 AM > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Initials following a photographer's > name > > I think you are missing my point. I was only stating what my > customers (pro photographers) were saying. > > The competition thing may contain better quality then the work > I saw > being judged, but the way the judges knocked off points for > things as > silly as the head in a portrait was not at the "correct" angle > made > me want to agree with my customers. > > I am more interested in knowing if the letters really do work > as a > marketing tool. > Mark > > On Aug 4, 2006, at 10:49 AM, ggeorgesnc wrote: > > > Usually those that laugh at all the initials following a > > photographer's name are those that cannot successfully > compete against > > other photographers. The objective for most of these > competitions is > > to challenge photographers to push their craft to a higher > level, and > > to gain recognition for their work--by their peers. > > > > If you take a quick look at the Spider Award Website at: > > > > http://www.thespiderawards.com/ > > > > you will see some of the most amazing black and white > photography that > > can be found. Any one can enter the competition and there is > a good > > selection of judges to make a fair and reasonable assessment > of the > > work. Who would not want to be like Lance and have won one of > these > > awards? Even more--how about as many awards as Lance has won? > > > > I also suggest that you look at the quality of the work shown > on the > > PPA Website at: > > > > http://www.ppa.com/ > > > > Or, you can order a book with the winning prints from many of > the > > competitions that Lance has awards from by visiting: > > > > http://www.marathonpress.com/default.php/cPath/62_65 > > > > These books offer some of the most outstanding photographs > that can be > > found in the world. If you are good enough to compete for > these awards > > and you can win, why not have the initials after your name. > Every > > photographer should have at least one of these books just to > see what > > level photographers are achieving with the new digital > technologies. > > > > Many excellent photographers do not compete and that is okay > too. In > > the past, I have not entered a single competition. However, > after > > publishing nine books, doing well-over a dozen workshops, I > now wish I > > had all the initials after my name like Lance does--it gives > you > > credibility among your peers--and you will make more money. > > > > Who would not want initials? > > > > Gregory Georges > > www.gregorygeorges.com > > www.gregorygeorges.com/gallery/gallery20 > > > > > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark > Savoia > > <mark@...> wrote: > >> > >> I am not trying to be a wise ass, but many of the pro > photographers > >> we deal with think of these as just just glorified camera > clubs that > >> you pay dues to, compete against each other, and when you > win enough > >> stuff they let you add letters after your name. I went to a > couple of > >> meetings to see what it was all about and the competition > rules > >> seemed completely ridiculous, they allowed for no "outside > the box" > >> thinking. After seeing that, I kind of agreed with my > clients. > >> > >> So is it JUST a marketing tool? > >> > >> Mark B.M.O.C. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other > > resources as they are often being updated. > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or > you > > wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences > by > > visiting this same page. > > > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier > messages > > to keep them short. > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks > or > > flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be > removed > > from the membership without notice. > > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of > digital > > B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may > be > > removed from the membership. > > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group > rules > > and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of > the > > group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and > Guidelines" > > in the Files section: > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/file > s/ > > > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL > BW, THE > > PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT > THE > > "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP > SHALL > > NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, > SPECIAL, > > CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED > TO, > > DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER > > INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF > DIGITAL > > BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE > POSSIBILITY OF > > SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY > TO USE > > THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED > ACCESS TO > > OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS > OR > > CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO > > GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, > THE > > PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other > resources as they are often being updated. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you > wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by > visiting this same page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier > messages to keep them short. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or > flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be > removed from the membership without notice. > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of > digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic > posts may be removed from the membership. > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group > rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions > of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and > Guidelines" in the Files section: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/file > s/ > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, > THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT > THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO > GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, > INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, > INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, > GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE > "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP > HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), > RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL > BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR > ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR > CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO > GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE > PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. Please follow these basic guidelines: - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. Yahoo! Groups Links
2006-08-05 by Eric Neilsen Photo
Lance, The best black is the one that gives you the print quality you are trying to create. I print on a 4800 and have only run MK in it. I ONLY print on fiber paper. I would be more concerned by what is driving the blacks, your eye, densitometer, RIP, et la. As I am sure you know that it is the perception that is more important than the measured density. I'd look into something like Studio Print, Image Print, Pocket RIP and good profiling tools. Eric Eric Neilsen Photography 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9 Dallas, TX 75226 214-827-8301 http://ericneilsenphotography.com Skype : ejprinter _____
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Claude Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 10:10 AM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Digital BW] Re: The Best Blacks --- In DigitalBlackandWhit <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> eThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" <dfaprinting@...> wrote: > I was almost going to add that "man(kind) does not live by dmax alone" > in my post above, but I was being lazy. > I agree that Dmax is not the be all, end all to a good print. I tried a paper that had the best Dmax of all (weird coating, so it wasn't completely matte) and the print looks like crap. What I like about the carbon prints on cotton is that they possess incredible value separation, which is lost if you laminate, which gives you greater Dmax. I know, I tried it and measure densities, etc. Crane Museo had the lowest Dmax alone (1.55) which jumped to 2.05 when laminated.....BUT all the tonal separation in the blacks were gone into one big Dmax lump. The smoothest prints I've ever seen are the ones Jon Cone gave me in NYC last year at Photo Plus. That guy get it right on the paper for sure. there are others here as well. Claude Jodoin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2006-08-06 by john dean
You know it's interesting. When people on these inkjet lists talk about monochrome print quality, 90% they are debating dmax issues. We never did that in the darkroom days. We had the sophisticated densitometer equipment to judge and debate this issue with a multitude of various quality silver papers but we never did it. It wasn't a big deal. If something didn't look good we didn't use it. DMax measurements are way down my list of the prerequisites of a satisfactory black and white workflow. I can make one print and find out if the max bottom end is working for me. Now all the other characteristics, like subtle tonal seperation, print hue clarity, clogg resistance, etc, that's the tricky stuff. John