Digital BW, The Print

You continue to help most considerably, and considerately, Clayton. I will be saving this 
post in my "printing info" folder. 

 It's funny...I take so long to research, weigh options and make decisions that by the time I 
think I may have made up my mind about another printer purchase, Epson comes out with 
another model and I have to reassess once again!

Again, thank you so very much!! I look forward to your findings with the 3800 and MK.
Sarah



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones" <cj@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Sarah,
> 
> >I only consider the 4000 because of the BO capabilities. I currently 
> >use a 2200 and would like to print a bit larger. Otherwise I'd 
> >definitely go for the 4800 or 3800.
> 
> Understood.
> 
> 
> >Clayton, very interesting, your comments about "B3" still showing 
> >some paper white. 
> 
> BO as you know gets its tonal gradation by changing the amount of
> space between the dots.  Look with a loupe at a BO ramp and you can
> see the amount of visible bare paper getting less and less as you move
> down the ramp to the darker zones. The last bits of paper white that's
> enough to make a difference in overall luminance disappear at about
> 70% or so.  What this means is that even the midtones have
> considerable bare paper showing, and it's what gives BO prints their
> beautiful glow.  What I'm seeing on the B3 ramp is that the
> significant amount of visible paper white shuts down earlier, at
> around 45% or so (because it's using lighter inks for the light tones
> it can close up the space between the dots much earlier).  This means
> that the midtone luminance won't be quite as strong as a BO print, but
> should still be quite nice.
> 
> This is what I found with the 2400 prints in ABW mode.  When I first
> got it I was afraid the prints would have that dull look that so many
> of the full ink systems have, but was pleasantly surprised to find
> they have very nice luminance.  Upon examination with a loupe I found
> that the ABW prints are "dotty", meaning that individual dots can be
> distinguished in the highlights with some bare paper showing between them.
> 
> For many people the "holy grail" has been completely dot-free
> highlights, which most closely resembles the continuous tone of
> emulsion prints (the goal being to make inkjet prints that are
> indistinguishable from emulsion prints).  What I saw over the years
> was that the systems that came the closest to being dotless were the
> ones with the most dull veiled look.  With a strong loupe you could
> see that they achieved that by completely covering the paper with very
> pale, almost transparent ink in the highlights.  It was almost
> impossible to distinguish any dots.  Unfortunately this has the effect
> of reducing the paper's reflectivity, producing the veiled look.
> 
> The K3 printers have been criticized for being "dotty", but that's
> exactly what I like about them.  I've found the ABW prints to be an
> excellent compromise between the two extremes, and I'm getting some
> really gorgeous glowing prints.  You have to look with a magnifier to
> see any dots, but most people view prints from a normal distance, so
> to me that issue is irrelevent.  I'd much rather have the luminance. 
> I'm seeing the same treatment in this 3800 B3 ramp, so it looks promising.
> 
> 
> >I'll await more of your findings when you do some 
> >printing with MK (are you using Epson MK or Eboni?) 
> 
> AFAIK nobody is using Eboni in a 3800 because there are no replacement
> carts available for it yet.  So any tests I do will be with Epson MK.
> 
> 
> 
> >I am still always so surprised and pleased by how much deeper the 
> >Eboni is than the MK in my BO prints. I tried both and there's just 
> >no comparison. You can practically fall into the Eboni blacks they 
> >are so rich and deep. 
> 
> Yes, it's wonderful stuff.
> 
> 
> >"If it looks good, there is always the possibility of using Eboni in
> >there for a cooler MK (although it doesn't kick in until 55%)."
> <-----not sure what you mean here...could you explain further? 
> 
> 55% is where the K ink kicks in.  The B3 ramp is all LLK from 0 to 25%
> where the darker LK dots begin to overlay it and the LLK begins
> falling away.  Then it's mostly LK dots, gradually getting closer
> together, until 55% where the K dots begin appearing and the LK begins
> falling away.  The point is that even though Eboni is cooler toned,
> that coolness won't affect anything below 55%.  So the effect in a
> print might be like a subtle split toning, with warm midtones and
> highlights and slightly cooler dark zones.  I'm not sure how this will
> look, it might not work well.
> 
> There you have it, I hope this helps clarify it.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Clayton
> 
> 
> Info on black and white digital printing at    
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
> 
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> 
> >I'd like to think I could keep the deep richness of Eboni even 
> >with B3...are you saying that would not be the case?
>