Digital BW, The Print

Phil, I don't doubt a certain amount of price control takes place but I
suspect that it is not done by agreements reached in back rooms. There have
been papers that have been tested by members of this forum that were just
about set for release and then????  Developing a coating to match the ink
sets that are out there is a far cry from making silver gelatin paper. You
may also remember that Honda motorcycles used to be really inexpensive too
until Harley lobbied congress to save their company through tariffs. Much
has changed in the business practices since the 60's and 70's and while
there is reason to believe that Ansel's use of Oriental may have contributed
to it's higher price, other factors were at work.  When Oriental made the
paper push, there had already been a number of years of successful paper
production with multiple factories involved. The ink jet industry is still
quite young when it comes to the ink and papers being used. I'd also look
into spoilage  due to packaging, shipping, freight cost for reason that
these products pinch the wallet. 

 

I live across town from Red River in Dallas. My cost for their paper is
quite good and it arrives after traveling in an AC environment.  

 

You see it all the time on this list; The ultimate Dmax Chase or Ultimate
Color Gamut chase, etc.   Paper companies are either driving this or are
trying to keep up with demand. Either way they are constantly trying to
deliver a "better" product; well establish companies such as Hahnemuehle
still have failed batches. So if coating paper was really that easy, I'd
think that we would all see cleaner, more trouble free printing but we
don't.  

 

Eric

 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street

Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

http://e.neilsen.home.att.net

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

Skype ejprinter

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
brouwerkent
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 12:50 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Question about perceptions...clarification

 

Hello Eric

I must politely disagree with your point here.... 

I used to use Oriental when it was Freestyle's bargain paper...it was
really cheap in the late 60s and early 70s...much cheaper than Kodak
or Agfa. It was my standard in college...and I was as poor as a
church mouse back then. Even after Ansel gave it his blessing in the
mid 70s...Oriental was not much more costly than the rest....Ansel was
also buying it from Freestyle. Only in more recent years did Oriental
assume a high priced Deluxe status...presumably because Ansel's prints
on it were selling for funny money.

I raised the question about these fibre look alike ink jet papers,
because I cannot understand the huge discrepancy between a top of the
line RC and/or cotton paper and an Alpha Cellulose inkjet paper. The
coatings cannot be all that different...are they??? 

I cannot understand why a more costly material cotton fibre based
paper should cost significantly less that a cheaper to produce
material Alpha Cellulose based paper other than a marketing hoax. 
There are no precious metals involved here..just marketing... Yea,
yea...coating may take some tweaking and R&D, but certainly coating is
the least expensive factor here...the paper base certainly is the most
costly???right???? Please correct me if I am wrong.

As to getting stuff out of the door, we all want to be more
productive. This includes having quality materials that we can count
on. And I certainly appreciate paying a bit more for a bit better. 

However, just because a product is more costly does not insure better
IMHO. 

Am I the only one on this group that perceives these alpha cellulose
Air Dryed papers as overpriced? I am just questioning the significant
difference in cost between inkjet paper types...and I am enough of a
cynic to have a notion that I am being ripped off by a marketing con.

Don't get me wrong... some of these new Fibre lookalike papers are
quite lovely. The Innova Ftype Semi Matte is frankly superb...it just
hurts to use it liberally. 

Curiously, I was able to buy several boxes of same paper a number of
months back at Adorama for about half the price of Shades of Paper. 
I note now that Adorama is towing the line and selling more or less
same price. My assumption here is that Adorama has been forced to
hold prices at a certain level by the supplier/producer of the paper.
I am in a different industry, but this kind of price/profit fixing is
pretty common in all industries..and difficult to combat from a
consumer level...but my strong suspicion here is that the paper
industry is very guilty of doing this with these high end papers. 

Phil

>
> Jimbeaujack, It may not be a question of being disinterested in the
> question, but rather a question of time. The great paper chase can
be an all
> consuming event if you let it. There are many here that are trying
to get
> product out the door within a reasonable time frame. There are
others that
> tinker. I like to settle on a few choice papers and concentrate on
images;
> trying new papers every once in a while. 
> 
> 
> 
> As to the cost of the papers, cheap paper cost little to make and high
> quality well coated paper does take some time and money. The look of the
> Oriental air dried gloss was a nice look as was the Agfa 118 semi
matte. 
> 
> 
> 
> Just a quick thought,
> 
> Eric
> 

.

 
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=87294/stime=1188453027/nc1=3848618/nc2=4507179/nc3=4025291> 
 



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