Digital BW, The Print

Hi Espen,

I wrote my reply in two parts, separated by dinner ;-), and after 
posting I saw that Paul, our guru, already replied. So whatever info 
may be conflicting, please take Paul's word :-)

Joost


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Joost Horsten" 
<j.h.j.h@...> wrote:
>
> --- In 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "espen.aasheim" 
> <princemild@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi.
> > 
> > I had a post a week ago where I got some info for 3MK with the 
> R1800,
> > well.. now the r1800 has disappeared from the market here in 
Norway
> 
> Strange, I'm always under the impression that these things go mor 
or 
> less continent by continent. here in the Netherlands it seems to 
be 
>  for sale on regular basis...
> 
> > I'm looking at other solutions for good A3+ BW printing.. 
> > The closest to the 100% carbon approach of the R1800 seems to be 
> UT-3D 
> > with R2400, but I have a few questions..
> > 
> > Initially, could the UT-3D approach be too difficult for a 
> beginner?
> 
> The key question in this is how you drive the printer, via the 
Epson 
> driver or via a RIP (such a QTR).
> 
> The R2400 is a very versatile machine and allows for both 
> approaches. It makes very good B&W prints right out of the box 
with 
> OEM K3 inks with the standard driver and is easy to use. Toning 
can 
> be influenced easily as well. One can print directly from any 
> application. And it can still color. On the negative side: as it 
> uses some yellow the archival quality is less than other 
approaches. 
> OEM inks are expensive. 
> 
> To address the archive issue it has been proposed here earlier to 
> replace the yellow with a very light carbon (MIS EZW). Ink cost 
can 
> be reduced by using bulk ink.
> 
> The 3MK/R1800 is more or less the opposite approach: just pure 
> carbon, so the highest possible archival quality. You need to buy 
> only one ink in bulk (Eboni) so ink is cheap. On the negative 
side: 
> no toning possibility (except for different paper choice) and you 
> need a RIP to print. 
> 
> I'm using UT3D myself (on a 2100), driving it with QTR. To my 
> feeling this approach is somewhere in between the two above: very 
> good archival quality (less then pure carbon, better than color 
> inks), very good toning flexiblity. If you're prepared to work 
with 
> a RIP, as I think you are as you are considering a 3MK approach, 
> than UT3D is a fairly simple ink set. All toning difficulties are 
> solved within the ink set, so one has mainly to address density. I 
> ususally start making a warm curve, which takes some time. But 
then 
> the cool and selenium curves are simple derivatives. When I 
started 
> 18 months ago I found the most difficult part to get the workflow 
> with QTR right, but that is not much different for whatever ink 
set 
> is used.
> 
> UT3D allows also for a totally different workflow. As it is a full 
> spectrum, low gamut inkset it can be treated as a color ink set. 
In 
> theory PrintFixPro supports this. That would actually be very 
> simple. But see my recent posting on this topic. My information is 
> that the toning capabilities of UT3D are much restricted by PFP.
> 
> > 
> > Which inks are necessary to buy for BW only? And, can I use UT-3D
> > Eboni, LK, LLK with the epson color inks for color printing, 
with 
> > good results?
> 
> For a neutral BW print one needs Eboni, (warm) LK, (warm) LLK, 
cool 
> LK and cool LLK. This is needed since LK and LLK are not neutral 
but 
> quite warm inks. For a full spectrum one need the selenium toner 
as 
> well. For use in a color work the neutral LK is needed as well. So 
> there's no way you can combine this with a full gamut color inkset.
> > 
> > There are no ICC's and curves for the paper I'll be using 
(permajet
> > delta matt fibre, at least at first), will I still be able to 
get 
> > acceptable results?
> 
> For good results you need icc-profiles or QTR curves. If they 
don't 
> exist you have to make them. I you don't want to, better restrict 
> yourself to papers that are profiled.
> 
> Success,
> 
> Joost
> 
> > 
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Espen
> >
>