Digital BW, The Print

David,

Mayhaps not, but I would not suspect that you would notice any changes in your work in 5 years. But, it's not black and white like you are trying to make it either. (pun intended).  The threat is relative to the intent of the photographer and the perceived value of their work. For others it doesn't really matter two pickles.

Some photographers (and certainly not all) would NOT consider the 5 years that you have been working with Epson K3 inks to be a long time. In regards to the life of a b&w print and its ability to retain its color tone over time, 10 - 15 years is not considered to be a long time. It's like a drop in a tray of fixer. 30 years however, is also not a long time for many to begin noticing color shift in their b&w prints. It's wicked premature in terms of the history of b&w, but not out of line with the history of dye-coupler and other chemical color photography. 

That is the market that Epson advertises the convenience of ABW to, and uses a stability rating system to back it that was evolved for dye-coupler photography and which admittedly does not have the ability to detect, much less evaluate color shift in multi-gray/color inkjet inks. It is also the same market that your company is focused on.

And yet at the same time I can easily recognize the validity for the majority of amateur b&w photographers, and Epson certainly knows this, that the print needs only to look like the photographer intended for a few months or a few years. A decade or two would be a blessing to a smaller group. And if it ends up like an old red-stained color photograph does but with tons more retained detail - some'll be as happy as pumpkins in early Summer. 

But I hope that this B&W:The Print did not evolve into a color print group that makes the occasional b&w print. It certainly started out as a monochrome inks only group. If it has evolved into color printers making b&w prints, then you have certainly brought your color management soap-box to the right place.

Anyway in closer regards to the original subject matter, if we evolve into a culture which views the importance of the image on the display as more important than the print, it may have become because the screen image can be made to retain its initial color tone whereas the b&w print made in part with color inks cannot. I would not be at all surprised to see Epson evolve from a printer manufacturer to some sort of display manufacturer that eventually swallows and absorbs your company. 

This has been a most interesting and revealing topic.

Jon
retained image evangelist





--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Cdtobie <CDTobie@...> wrote:
>
> Gosh, I've been doing it as long as there gave been printers with two  
> grays in them, on a wide range of media, some matted and framed, some  
> not, and I've never seen a single one of my prints turn red, or any  
> other color. Mayhaps you overstate the threat?
> 
> C. D. Tobie
> Global Product Technology Mngr.
> Digital Imaging & Home Theater
> Datacolor.com
> CDTobie@...
> 
> On Apr 9, 2009, at 5:45 PM, "Jon Cone" <jon@...> wrote:
> 
> > No, using Epson inks to make B&W is the road to color shifted images  
> > in a short time.  :)
> >
> > What I was referring to was looking at prints or looking at computer  
> > images. The original discussion was about prints versus screen images.
> >
> > So the comparison was to listening to live music or a recording of  
> > live music on an iPhone... a stretch I admit. even a tad  
> > sarcastic...  The print is always what it is. It is the print. But  
> > if we begin to look at images on displays - they will end up one day  
> > on iPhones. A display is what it is - a moving target.
> >
> > Jon
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen  
> > Kobrin" <kobrins@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Given what Mozart sounds like over an iPhone speaker that is a  
> >> pretty  harsh judgment.  Are you saying that anyone who does not  
> >> use Cone (or other carbon) inks can't be serious about making B&W  
> >> prints?  Is  Epson's ABW mode really the road to perdition and ruin?
> >>
> >> Steve
> >>
> >> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Cone"  
> >> <jon@> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> At the risk of being accused of sarcasm, what about listening to a  
> >>> string orchestra in a concert hall or listening to a recording of  
> >>> a string orchestra in a concert hall but through the tiny internal  
> >>> speakers of an iPhone using the concert hall ambient settings of  
> >>> its iPod app?
> >>>
> >>> Why is this group losing its focus on what makes black & white  
> >>> photography so extraordinary?  The Print.
> >>>
> >>> Has it been that long for so many that the inherent beauty of an  
> >>> exquisitely crafted silver or carbon print is now lost to memory?  
> >>> Or is it because the ability to craft one is becoming a lost art  
> >>> as so many navigate to printing B&W with color inks on Canon,  
> >>> Epson, HP and Lexmark printers?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Jon Cone
> >>> InkjetMall.com