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Re: [Digital BW] Your long answer was Re: Prints versus screen images: A Question

2009-04-12 by Ernst Dinkla

Jon Cone schreef:

>. So, when K2 evolved into K3, its blacks and grays had to be made considerably off-neutral. Epson K3 blacks and grays are measurably greenish. The problem is not the color of the light grays but simply using less stable color inks in combination with stable blacks/grays. That is the core of the problem. 
> http://www.inkjetmall.com/70ML-ABWvsCS.jpg

> He argues that a new method designed for him by Mark McCormick-Goodhart (the co-author of the pdfs) but not yet implemented at WIR can detect color balance (something the WIR densitometer is not technically capable of), and that automated and sophisticated spectrophotometers using a CIELab based system of measurements over a much wider array of color patches will be able to measure color balance in colors, neutrals, near-neutrals and flesh tones - which WIR methodology simply cannot detect. WIR gives an example of a gross failure of his system attributed to a simple color print made on a Canon printer. The resulting images however, show what WIR easily noticeable fade looks like. I would argue after reading this that the entire WIR premise of what is easily noticeable is pointed at sunday shooters and scrapbookers rather than fine artists and photographers. These two pdfs will teach you everything you wanted to know about longevity testing as practiced by Epson, Canon and 
HP which use WIR on an exclusive basis. It's a business model that may not take your best interests into consideration because admittedly it is a system that is not necessarily adapted to inkjet yet, but heavily promotes super-longevity ratings not previously attained by any photographic process.
> 
> Afterwards, you may wish to look to this site (http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/) to begin learning something for yourself about actual longevity testing of modern inksets that are of use to users rather than the tests on the WIR site which appear now to be of more use to OEMs. (I do not mean that to sound condescending).


HP either must have that patent or have a license to use more than 2 
neutral greys in an inkset, all the Z models and the B9180 + B8850 have 
that 4 or 3 neutral grey inks as the spine in the color mode as the only 
inks used in a neutral B&W print.

As I understand it Mark McCormick's first goal was to broaden the fade 
testing with measurements on more color mixes. Looking back, that 
already became necessary when CMY layers of analogue film and paper were 
replaced by CMYK in digital printing (though CMYK existed in general 
printing for a 100 years already). The K substituting part of the 
composite grays must have made the dark colors and darker grays more 
stable if compared to the CMY only mixes (not considering the coating 
layers, dye coupler, dye ink, pigment ink, aspects). The printer 
manufacturers improved the ink sets later on by reducing the composite 
gray mixes even more and also reducing the secondary etc color mixes, 
both through further substitution with gray inks and later on by extra 
hues. That Epson's ABW mode isn't free of composite grays places it in 
the same category but that doesn't mean HP falls in that category too 
for B&W printing. While I agree that the testing method is an 
improvement, I think the new ink sets are also an improvement. The first 
tests on different ink sets are not all finished at Aardenburg so it has 
to be seen whether there will be a big shift in their order of fade 
resistance and how the big three will finish compared to third party 
inks, both in color prints and B&W. Some results are already published. 
The order we know right now is from Wilhelm's tests and Image 
Engineering that in general doesn't contradict Wilhem's results. The 
inks tested over the last 5 years were from the big three. The exception 
a less convincing test of selected  third party inks (for desktop 
models) that was more an attempt to create contrast for the other 
results. Aardenburg's tests include more convincing third parties too so 
may have your inks as well. Didn't check that. But it is too early yet 
to conclude that all is clear now.

That Wilhelm Research has to reinvent itself from time to time doesn't 
change the fact that it contributed a lot to the improvements made on 
fade resistance, etc. for analogue photography, the movie archives, 
digital printing and probably more.
 >I would argue after reading this that the entire WIR premise of what 
is easily noticeable is pointed at sunday shooters and scrapbookers 
rather than fine artists and photographers<  sounds harsh then. I don't 
think Mark McCormick would make the same remark, he probably considers 
his institute both in testing and as an enterprise as a next step after 
Wilhelm's work, with respect for what has been done before.


-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst


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