Digital BW, The Print

Martin and Group-

Given the 50/50 email/web split of our membership, my advice is to 
stay where we are for now. I can't find a solution that has the 
features we need. The closest is to take a step back in time and 
become a USENET group... probably not a great idea.

I, for one, would gladly contribute to a fund to remove the intrusive 
advertising. Yahoo is nuts...this whole episode has totally soured me 
on them as a company. The seem to have only AOL as a role model and 
at least AOL provides reliable web connections along with the 
annoyances <g>.


Let us know if Yahoo ever responds...

thanks,

Tom O'Connell



-- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Martin Wesley" 
<mwesley250@e...> wrote:
> Tom,
> 
> First of all thank you for spending so much time looking into this. 
To
> answer Austin's question , a move is being considered because as 
the list
> has grown in membership so has the Yahoo advertising. The 
advertising has
> become particularly annoying to those who access the group directly 
with
> their browser.
> 
> To answer your major question, a quick review of the membership 
settings
> indicate that there is about a 50/50 split between those who do and 
those
> who don't receive the posts by e-mail or digest. So there really 
does need
> to be both and the e-mail side needs to provide daily and weekly 
digests.
> 
> On line access should provide the ability to view messages by date 
(my
> personal method of checking the group) and by thread. We are also 
using the
> Files, Bookmarks, Database and Polls features of the group homepage.
> 
> I have a backup of all the posted messages on my computer as *.elm 
films and
> a new site must be able to import all 9700 in mass and reconcile 
duplicate
> file names.
> 
> The other issue is that the hosting organization needs to be large, 
stable
> and likely to be around a long time. Yahoo has it's faults but it 
does have
> a huge amount of hardware and staff to keep it running and backed 
up.
> 
> All together this is a very tall order.
> 
> As far as running a forum goes, it has taken far more of my time 
than I
> anticipated at the beginning. If you add to that the technical side 
of
> setting up software, maintaining a server, do back-ups, etc. the 
time
> investment would be huge.
> 
> The best solution would be to get Yahoo to modify their advertising 
on line
> either by persuasion. I have left voice mail with Yahoo and sent an 
e-mail
> about purchasing the ad space. Hopefully I will get a reply as this 
would be
> the easiest solution to our problems (assuming they don't want a 
huge sum of
> money!) If we do pay for this it would need to be done by the 
members as one
> of our founding principles is to be free of any connection to a 
company
> involved in selling products for digital printing.
> 
> Once again thank you for your research!
> 
> Martin
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "tomoc" <tomoc@y...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 9:39 PM
> Subject: [Digital BW] Update report on search for new forum home
> 
> 
> > HI everyone-
> >
> > Thought I should give you all an update on my research on possible
> > new homes for the list/forum.
> >
> > The first thing I am finding out is that it is important to know 
if
> > we need to remain a "list" with web access or whether we want to
> > become a true forum, a web based community without the mailing 
list.
> >
> > I personally have always used the web, finding the email either
> > overwhelming (if individual emails) or confusing if digests (and 
not
> > too timely), but I see from many comments that a lot of us are 
email
> > list users. If this is to overcome the ad problem (as many have
> > indicated), some of the homes I've found may be 
suitable...if "list"
> > remeains important, there will only be one alternative.
> >
> > My view is that the technolgoy of DPReview and RobGalbraith.com 
are
> > the best two platforms supporting content that is close enough to
> > ours to consider a "merger".
> >
> > check them out, if you like:
> >
> > http://www.robgalbraith.com/  (click on enter forums)
> > http://www.dpreview.com/  (click on forums)
> >
> > They both have a nice look and clean features that help you by
> > threading and summarizing, etc. DP Review responded that they just
> > wouldn't have time to transfer our archives. Rob Galbraith said 
the
> > archives would only be possible to transfer to his server if they
> > were importable to the Ultimat Bulletin Board infrastructure, 
which
> > he thought was unlikely.
> >
> > I also checked with both the moderator and the membership of the
> > Nikon D1 Users Group forum, a self hosted forum. I think we could
> > work out a merger there...this is a terrific platform as well... 
but
> > it does not support the mailing list.
> >
> > Check this one out: http://www.nikond1.net/
> >
> > This left 2 alternatives that I am aware of. First would be to
> > establish a USENET news group and this is a real possiblity. 
Google
> > now has a very slick interface for newsgroup reading and 
responding.
> > It's not quite as customized as Yahoo groups, but its fast, its 
free
> > and there are no ads whatever.
> >
> > See an example of this: http://groups.google.com/groups?
> > hl=en&group=rec.photo.digital  (if this link doesn't work because
> > it's on two lines, go to google groups and enter 
rec.photo.digital in
> > the search box).
> >
> > Finally, a member of the Nikon D1 Users forum contacted me and
> > expressed and interest in helping us start one from scratch "I 
have
> > the server, the knowledge, and the connection. What I need is 
time to
> > manage it. If you want to co-host it, we could probably put this
> > together ourselves."
> >
> > I don't know if we have anyone here who has the time to step up 
and
> > manage a forum (I don't even know how much time it would take). I
> > assume this is not the case or we wouldn't be in Yahoo now???
> >
> > There is one other option. It has been mentioned on the list. That
> > would be to pay Yahoo not to be in an ad environment. I haven't
> > checked out this cost. I would be willing to contribute to it, but
> > this is probably something that would be "safer" for the list to 
be
> > in some corporate hands. Maybe we should/could approach Epson or 
and
> > ink or paper manufacturer to buy sponsorships?
> >
> > Well... looking forward to feedback and new direction... if any...
> >
> > Tom O'Connell
> > TomOC@y...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to keep
> them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject 
header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks 
or "flames."
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
various
> resources on the homepage.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >